Relic Weapons. CONCERNS/SUGGESTIONS

[DarthTaru]

you're saying things you haven't yet experienced or beaten (AV/CC 17 min runs, DH 15min runs, relic faction leves, garuda) require no skill. alright, then. let's revisit this thread when you've got the experience to back up the claim.

but in the meantime, i don't understand the sense of entitlement so many players have about this. getting relic takes work. it takes DoH/DoL classes or a lot of farming, which equals work. it takes a fair sum of gil (even though i'm pretty poor and have never had more than 30m on me at any given time, yet i'm managing alright), which equals work. it takes grinding unfinished weapon spiritbond for hours, which equals work. and it requires completing several challenging steps to boot, which equals more work.

if you don't want to put in the work, or can't- fine. then relic isn't for you. but simply by virtue of it existing in the game, that doesn't mean you should automatically be entitled to it. relic was put here for the hardcores to put in a ton of work and get fast, and for everyone else to work toward as a long-term goal.

but whether hardcore or casual, expecting to get it overnight with just a few hours of time invested is downright silly. the game has items people can easily obtain with that amount of effort. and now it also has items people have to put exponentially more effort into in order to obtain.

if you still want relic, level your DoH and DoL or put in a lot of time farming. network. find people who can convert your mats into the weapons you'll need to meld. watch the auction house. make a concerted effort to build up your pool of gil. take steps toward it and eventually you'll have it.

but just because some players have already put in a large portion of the necessary work before relic was implemented, that doesn't mean the game should magically quantum leap you up to speed with them when you didn't. this system is mostly fair and rewards dedication, perseverance, a bit of luck, and skill.

i don't necessarily like the way they're using the materia system for this, as it's very imbalanced at the moment (and i'm completely certain RMT are making a killing off of honest players right now)- but relic aren't meant to be handouts. these aren't welfare weapons.

put in the time and you'll get one, just like anyone else. period.

/thread
/10

[lordvr]

you're saying things you haven't yet experienced or beaten (AV/CC 17 min runs, DH 15min runs, relic faction leves, garuda) require no skill. alright, then. let's revisit this thread when you've got the experience to back up the claim.

but in the meantime, i don't understand the sense of entitlement so many players have about this. getting relic takes work. it takes DoH/DoL classes or a lot of farming, which equals work. it takes a fair sum of gil (even though i'm pretty poor and have never had more than 30m on me at any given time, yet i'm managing alright), which equals work. it takes grinding unfinished weapon spiritbond for hours, which equals work. and it requires completing several challenging steps to boot, which equals more work.

if you don't want to put in the work, or can't- fine. then relic isn't for you. but simply by virtue of it existing in the game, that doesn't mean you should automatically be entitled to it. relic was put here for the hardcores to put in a ton of work and get fast, and for everyone else to work toward as a long-term goal.

but whether hardcore or casual, expecting to get it overnight with just a few hours of time invested is downright silly. the game has items people can easily obtain with that amount of effort. and now it also has items people have to put exponentially more effort into in order to obtain.

if you still want relic, level your DoH and DoL or put in a lot of time farming. network. find people who can convert your mats into the weapons you'll need to meld. watch the auction house. make a concerted effort to build up your pool of gil. take steps toward it and eventually you'll have it.

but just because some players have already put in a large portion of the necessary work before relic was implemented, that doesn't mean the game should magically quantum leap you up to speed with them when you didn't. this system is mostly fair and rewards dedication, perseverance, a bit of luck, and skill.

i don't necessarily like the way they're using the materia system for this, as it's very imbalanced at the moment (and i'm completely certain RMT are making a killing off of honest players right now)- but relic aren't meant to be handouts. these aren't welfare weapons.

put in the time and you'll get one, just like anyone else. period.

Horrible luck with double melding ensured that the class wpn for relic ended up costing me nearly 80 million, meanwhile other players succeed double melds on their first time. I failed 14 (2m x 14 + 1.3m x 28m) in a row, and and ended up having to buy a double melded obelisk outright for 29 million. Gambling with that much gil is ridiculous. It would be vastly improved if the quest simply required a payment of XX million gil. I'd be all for that. It would mean it cost everyone the same amount for their relic. High stakes gambling should never be part of a quest chain like this. It's absolutely sickening. The materia system as a whole need to be redesigned.

[Elexia]

This is the other side of the spectrum.
I had no idea grinding 20000 monsters + 15 NMs was considered skillful.
There's a reason a lot of people hated TotM on XI.

I've seen no hate for Magian trials. The thing people hated about specific trials were the CHOICES of NMs, not the system.

[Alderton]

I know that you may not even consider this but... Instead of having things based on gil and luck you could possibly instead introduce a string of maybe 15-30 very difficult quest were-in upon completing each quest you get closer to your goal of a relic. In the predecessor FFXI at least with every dynamis you completed you were a bit closer to your weapon. were as in the current state of the relic system now its either you are or your not.

This is actually already represented. The 17 minute speed runs, faction nm fight, garuda, and Ifrit are already multiple stages in the process that require skill.

I honestly like the current set up. Yes, there are stages that require gil and luck, but in order to obtain a relic, you need to touch almost every aspect of the current game: Hamlet, crafting, spiritbonding, strongholds, each dungeon, behest, chocobo escort, beastmen camps, leves, and primals.

To obtain a relic, you pretty much have to beat the current FFXIV. Sounds good to me.

[lolodin]

This is actually already represented. The 17 minute speed runs, faction nm fight, garuda, and Ifrit are already multiple stages in the process that require skill.

I honestly like the current set up. Yes, there are stages that require gil and luck, but in order to obtain a relic, you need to touch almost every aspect of the current game: Hamlet, crafting, spiritbonding, strongholds, each dungeon, behest, chocobo escort, beastmen camps, leves, and primals.

To obtain a relic, you pretty much have to beat the current FFXIV. Sounds good to me.

i dont disagree im not saying completely remove some of the current relic system i am saying just put in some things that make it obtainable to all skillful players instead of the rich and crafters and such.

[HoolieWho]

Yes, there are stages that require gil and luck, but in order to obtain a relic, you need to touch almost every aspect of the current game: Hamlet.

You have to touch Hamlet Defense way too much for my tastes.

To obtain a relic, you pretty much have to beat the current FFXIV. Sounds good to me.

Beat it. Beat it some more. Kick the beaten corpse. Then shake it until your last Hamlet seals fall out. Or buy the Hamlet and the Captain will slip you some seals under the table. I don't care for either method.

Rest of the quest seems fine to me, although the materia required for the weapons is hardly balanced.

[Momita]

hmmmm closing hamlet with 60k for a good drop% of seal... sure, luck...
AV/CC in 17min SR5C... sure, luck
DH 15min SR5C... sure, luck
Faction NM, sure, luck
Behest, sure, luck
Caravan, sure, luck
Ifrit Extreme..... SURE, luck
Garuda SR0D (Speed Run 0 Deaths)... SURE, LUCK
Farm and Spiritbond... yes.. all luck


the only luck in on double meld

^^

[Skies]

Mister, you are missing one part of what the Relic quest really is.

Look at every single piece of content currently avaiable on XIV. Now look at the relic quest.

See the similarity? That is their entire point, by not just completing, but aceing, every last bit of content this game has, you are rewarded your Relic. That is the design space of relics, the prize for the ultimate conquering of the current game.

So any idea for changes in the relic quest that contains anything short of that, I cannot take seriously.

(okay, I admit that some of the portions of relic might be frustrating, a lot of it can also be unreasonably bullshitty, which I would be okay with some changes to as long as it remains being the ultimate reward for doing exceptionally well in every single bit of content the game has)

[Zozor]

I have crafts leveled and could theoretically make my own Rampager for Bravura.

I still spiritbond and sell materia because it's a great way to get gil as well as materia that I need for other pieces.

Requiring some DoH/DoL activity for these items is important because it promotes community in the game. If it's too easy to be self sufficient the game community will suffer.

[Zantetsuken]

Mister, you are missing one part of what the Relic quest really is.

Look at every single piece of content currently avaiable on XIV. Now look at the relic quest.

See the similarity? That is their entire point, by not just completing, but aceing, every last bit of content this game has, you are rewarded your Relic. That is the design space of relics, the prize for the ultimate conquering of the current game.

Exactly.

There is nothing arbitrary about the relic quests at all. (unlike some of the suggested changes ppl are making)

Makes you wonder if they will change the process once 2.0 is out... or will most endgame content remain the same.

It's safe to assume that any upgrades will require acing any future content between 2.0 and the upgrade quest.