Compact skills similar to PvP

[RidZz]

I still say if 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 is so complicated you need it changed to 111 222 333, it's not a game issue.

If they reduce everything down to 1 button, they are going to have to rev up the complexity by a lot in other areas. I would say the vast majority can already watch HULU and snack as we play most pieces of content, if they make it any easier we may as well go all in and just make combat a series of quick time events.

Lowering keybinds/hotbar usage as an OPTION Is not the same as oversimplifying a game or making it too easy for everyone, The button descriptions for all skills are the same. The only difference would be the hotbar usage.

[Jovakim]

As someone who would prefer our hot bars to be free of combo skills, I'm afraid I'd have to admit that it wouldn't work.

Making the consolidated combos "optional" would make them mandatory for those who want to keep the non-consolidated combos. That's because consolidated combos completely remove all chance for error, and nobody in their right mind would want the potential to lose hundreds of potency in damage because you didn't choose the right "option".

The one-button filler combos we've seen on Viper and Pictomancer will probably be mandatory for those jobs. This choice makes sense because those jobs were designed that way from the beginning, with job engagement in mind.
In contrast, it wouldn't work for Dragoon because it would reduce combo buttons from 7 to only 2, potentially making the rotation less engaging for most players.

A change like that must be mandatory for every job the developers decide to use it on. That's probably why they haven't implemented anything of the sort yet.

[RidZz]

As someone who would prefer our hot bars to be free of combo skills, I'm afraid I'd have to admit that it wouldn't work.

Making the consolidated combos "optional" would make them mandatory for those who want to keep the non-consolidated combos. That's because consolidated combos completely remove all chance for error, and nobody in their right mind would want the potential to lose hundreds of potency in damage because you didn't choose the right "option".

The one-button filler combos we've seen on Viper and Pictomancer will probably be mandatory for those jobs. This choice makes sense because those jobs were designed that way from the beginning, with job engagement in mind.
In contrast, it wouldn't work for Dragoon because it would reduce combo buttons from 7 to only 2, potentially making the rotation less engaging for most players.

A change like that must be mandatory for every job the developers decide to use it on. That's probably why they haven't implemented anything of the sort yet.

That's actually not true, Consolidated or nonconsolidated still leaves room for error, like when you hit 1 and are supposed to hit 2 after, another skill can cancel that combo, This will happen alot of times or sometimes 2 might hit for same or similar potency to 1 but hitting another skill offers higher potency at that moment, Dragoon is a good example of this when you need ur buff uptime. consolidating really is only good for hotbar space, not optimizing dps

[Jovakim]

snip

I admit that my wording about "completely remove all chance for error" might have sounded like "remove any chance of human error", but I was actually referring to the impossibility of breaking a combo when executing said combo.

A Dragoon repeatedly using the Full Thrust (raw damage) version of their combo is still much more effective than another Dragoon who consistently misses the third or fourth step of their combo. Both approaches are suboptimal, but the player using unconsolidated combos is at a disadvantage.

If we choose one of the other jobs' filler combos that don't branch (MCH, RPR, PLD, GNB, and DRK), you'll only break consolidated combos if you use AoE skills.
Meanwhile, someone with unconsolidated combos (who can still mistakenly press an AoE button) will have the added disadvantage of being able to break the combo itself at any point.

I haven't even mentioned how hitting different buttons in a specific order can still require a small mental load, even for those who have it down to muscle memory.

No matter how you slice it, they're not equally taxing or have the same chance of error.
That's likely why the devs didn't include it in the expansion where they are adding some follow-up skills on one button.

[LilimoLimomo]

It's interesting to me when folks say that combining 1-2-3 combos into a single button would reduce the game's complexity. It makes me wonder: do you actually feel like there's any complexity in pressing 1, then pressing 2, then pressing 3? I don't.

I think I understand where these comments are coming from, though: broadly speaking, FF14 is a dirt-simple game that struggles to truly engage its players. Most of the time, the only actual engagement that players have is pressing their buttons in the pre-determined order for that expansion. And that isn't great, but it's also all we've got. So I understand the hesitance to let any of that slide away.

But personally, I think the instinct to hold on to any "complexity" regardless of the actual value its providing is misguided, in that by clinging to scraps we become less likely to get what we truly want. Recently, Yoshi-P has talked about how the devs try to be thoughtful about adding new buttons to jobs because they're aware of how the increasing the number of buttons beyond a certain threshold impacts different subsets of the player base. (Whether you agree or disagree with that philosophy, it's unlikely that he'll change his tune on that.) So given that context, why would you want to waste any of the those limited button slots on the 2, 3, and 4 of combo actions? Wouldn't you rather compact the filler garbage into a single button so that you could have more buttons that actually do something compelling?

In short, every button we have that doesn't do something truly engaging is a button that's taking up space that could be occupied by something better.

[RidZz]

I admit that my wording about "completely remove all chance for error" might have sounded like "remove any chance of human error", but I was actually referring to the impossibility of breaking a combo when executing said combo.

A Dragoon repeatedly using the Full Thrust (raw damage) version of their combo is still much more effective than another Dragoon who consistently misses the third or fourth step of their combo. Both approaches are suboptimal, but the player using unconsolidated combos is at a disadvantage.

If we choose one of the other jobs' filler combos that don't branch (MCH, RPR, PLD, GNB, and DRK), you'll only break consolidated combos if you use AoE skills.
Meanwhile, someone with unconsolidated combos (who can still mistakenly press an AoE button) will have the added disadvantage of being able to break the combo itself at any point.

I haven't even mentioned how hitting different buttons in a specific order can still require a small mental load, even for those who have it down to muscle memory.

No matter how you slice it, they're not equally taxing or have the same chance of error.
That's likely why the devs didn't include it in the expansion where they are adding some follow-up skills on one button.

i mean i can agree with advantage or disadvantage in a way but the issue to me is it could really be applied to any optional setting ingame, Like the ninja teleport being double click to place or click once to place it, the aoe range circle that you can drag to an area and choose to either make it click to place or let go of key to place. Could even say this about macros and how they have an unfair advtange like autoswap for diff classes or the macros that you can afk with to grind crafting or do rotations for you. Or how legacy camera is like 10x better in pvp than standard camera and possibly even pve. Or maybe even the same with targeting modes that can be cone without using tab target, theres a setting that lets you target ur nearest enemy just by using an action skill. for alot of the high hour count players, they have their 123 combo memorized to a T so it wouldnt make a difference if they used 1-1-1 or 1-2-3. I do agree it would lower the skillfloor but it would also make it easier to focus mechanics and etc which is the real content of the game. I dont do it as much now but i have spent my first 300hrs on most mmos just staring at my hotbar. Now i just wanna use it to free up space

[RidZz]

It's interesting to me when folks say that combining 1-2-3 combos into a single button would reduce the game's complexity. It makes me wonder: do you actually feel like there's any complexity in pressing 1, then pressing 2, then pressing 3? I don't.

I think I understand where these comments are coming from, though: broadly speaking, FF14 is a dirt-simple game that struggles to truly engage its players. Most of the time, the only actual engagement that players have is pressing their buttons in the pre-determined order for that expansion. And that isn't great, but it's also all we've got. So I understand the hesitance to let any of that slide away.

But personally, I think the instinct to hold on to any "complexity" regardless of the actual value its providing is misguided, in that by clinging to scraps we become less likely to get what we truly want. Recently, Yoshi-P has talked about how the devs try to be thoughtful about adding new buttons to jobs because they're aware of how the increasing the number of buttons beyond a certain threshold impacts different subsets of the player base. (Whether you agree or disagree with that philosophy, it's unlikely that he'll change his tune on that.) So given that context, why would you want to waste any of the those limited button slots on the 2, 3, and 4 of combo actions? Wouldn't you rather compact the filler garbage into a single button so that you could have more buttons that actually do something compelling?

In short, every button we have that doesn't do something truly engaging is a button that's taking up space that could be occupied by something better.

ya im in the same boat. I dont want to press 1-1-1 because i think its less complexity, i wanna use 1-1-1 because its just basic abilities that have the same purpose with some or most just having a slightly different passive for each combo. i like the idea of havent less to press or having more to press that contain more meaning behind those presses. like i main paladin which is known to have the most buttons. but the thing is, its also known to have the highest utility. So thats why i love it so much because its kit is more than just filler combo to me.

[mallleable]

There is a pretty big difference in the tactile feel between spamming one button verses spamming a sequence or cluster of different buttons. I think, and I would like to think that devs think as well that the tactile feel of a job is important. Condensing combos has the potential to break the functionality, and aesthetics for jobs, and should not be a blanket solution for all combos, and should only be considered with function, and taste in mind.

[RidZz]

There is a pretty big difference in the tactile feel between spamming one button verses spamming a sequence or cluster of different buttons. I think, and I would like to think that devs think as well that the tactile feel of a job is important. Condensing combos has the potential to break the functionality, and aesthetics for jobs, and should not be a blanket solution for all combos, and should only be considered with function, and taste in mind.

again this viewpoint is different from everyone, If you feel it breaks ur immersion or removes all complexity from ur class then dont use the option, I dont believe it does that. I would only want this as an option so i can use less keybinds or atleast use more binds on things i feel are a necessary part of gameplay for me. ff14 has plenty of settings ingame ive mentioned in this thread that add alot of simplicity as an option for skills, targeting, camera modes and etc. Why should this be any different

[ThorneDynasty]

What does this add though? You just makes the gameplay less tactile, and you won't be doing anything else with those freed hotbar slots, because it's not like the can add new abilities in the kit to take up the space if it's optional and a lot of people still need those reserved.

Ironically the only jobs that actually are starting to have any real issues with too many abilities are healers, and guess how their DPS rotation already works.