Low level Combat gameplay and Job identity is HORRIBLE.

[Zadood]

As said above, too much potency, stuff is already melting hard enough as it is in sub shb dungeons. Alternatively I'd like them to rebuff a little the HP of all mobs in there, but that's still gonna introduce insane discrepancies between sprouts and veterans. They are already here due to gear differences and personally as a new player I'd feel horrible for not contributing at all and watching the vet(s) just clean everything up for me.

Imagine rebuffing mobs HP and having a party full of sprouts. They'd literally need 5 minutes per pack while full vets would clean it under 30s.

Then again, how is clearing a low level and dated dungeon faster than how it's originally was, a bad thing?

Unless FFXIV run on horizontal progression like GW2, with every new expansion released, the gamplay experience at low level dungeon is gonna get worse for both newbie/sprout and veteran due the total amount of abilities in job kit is diluted even further.

This is probably one of the less uglier solution out of other more uglier solutions.

[Valence]

Then again, how is clearing a low level and dated dungeon faster than how it's originally was, a bad thing?

Unless FFXIV run on horizontal progression like GW2, with every new expansion released, the gamplay experience at low level dungeon is gonna get worse for both newbie/sprout and veteran due the total amount of abilities in job kit is diluted even further.

This is probably one of the less uglier solution out of other more uglier solutions.

It's bad when mobs die under 5s yes. Which is already close to being a thing, because currently they die under 10s.

People telling me that they can sync all those high level skills appropriately, by how much? What are we talking about here exactly, because you do realize that getting 2-3 stacks of xenoglossy and Fouls of 600p, Flares, etc literally in sastasha is going to nuke everything down right? You can always tell me "oh yeah but the potency of those skills would be cut by half/whatever" and you'd still end up with jobs doing literally at least 50% or double of their actual power output at low level.

I system I could see perhaps is instead to have the system check the total potency per second gained by all the too high level abilities and then readjust the whole kit at low level with a negative coefficient modifier to readjust the final damage output, I don't know... But that sounds like a balance nightmare. But I mean why not?

This whole argument falls appart when you notice many of the older and newer MMOs allready implemented a Scaling system so you can keep most of your abilities While doing "dungeonfinders" what your describing is not an issue.

I don't know how they do it in other MMOs. I know XIV and how its stat scaling works though. Maybe instead of telling me that they do it right because they do, you should start telling me how they make it right to begin with?

[PyurBlue]

I system I could see perhaps is instead to have the system check the total potency per second gained by all the too high level abilities and then readjust the whole kit at low level with a negative coefficient modifier to readjust the final damage output, I don't know... But that sounds like a balance nightmare. But I mean why not?

No need to look at potency. Enemy HP is already scaled, so use the same scale factor and apply it to final damage just as a damage down debuff does.

Each time i see again one these kind of threads, i wonder if people really want that much Sastasha runs that will be 30+ minutes long. Because if entire 90 rotations are made to fit low level dungeons, that's what you will get when stumbling on max lvl players who don't have a clue how to play properly, spamming aoes on a single boss and no even knowing that 1-2-3 combos are a thing, doing 1/10 of the damage we are actually doing in this dungeon with two buttons.

Also getting your entire rotation too soon makes leveling way too boring. That's why, for example, monk has been for me a chore to level from 80 to 90. Absolutely nothing new when it gets to the gameplay, just a few skills becoming more flashy, and that's it. And that was only for 10 levels, i sure don't want to know how it would feel horrible getting your entire rotation at lvl 50, and having no feeling of progression after that.

In short it is another of these genius ideas that if implemented into the game, because of the negatives sides you can see coming from miles away, would end up making the playerbase angry, complaining on the forums that SE should have never done this, and that the players did totally never ask for such a thing.

I would very willingly take an endless Sastasha where I at least have to focus on my rotation in place of pressing 1 button for 5 minutes. The latter feels like 5 days.

[Valence]

No need to look at potency. Enemy HP is already scaled, so use the same scale factor and apply it to final damage just as a damage down debuff does.

On what metrics though? The higher your job level compared to the dungeon, the less damage output to make up for all the additional abilities? Jobs don't exactly have a linear progression in leveling, what would end up being fine in certain cases would go completely overboard either way in others.

On top of what people already brought up, you're literally introducing one more variable affecting damage (and wildly at that) on top of gear differences and skill level and you could end up with the same dungeons taking 30min with some groups and 5min with others.

Pardon me, but you haven't answer the question about why it is bad to blitz through a low level, dated dungeon?

It's not satisfying to play low level dungeon with our current abilities kit anyway, why not just blitz it through?

There is zero incentive to rerun a low level, dated dungeon.

Having your job kit gutted only provide negative incentive to rerun a low level, dated dungeon especially when the reward itself is not even rewarding at all.

Before you say things like "Things don't have to always about reward, fun is the most important thing to have when play a game."

Here's the thing, FFXIV combat as well as gameplay in general is dogwater, boring, janky, unresponsive and not fun at all.

I told you already, as a new player I would have absolutely hated:

1) a dungeon lasting barely 5min with mobs that keel over as soon as they get one hit
2) being essentially totally outmatched and useless compared to synced down players that come to run the roulette
3) rouletters are already speeding through everything like if their life depend on it, you'd essentially get the new praetorium sprout experience before they made cutscenes unskippable

Your logic also holds no ground whatsoever, if the combat and leveling design is dogwater, boring, janky unresponsive and not fun at all, then how is making the content skippable as fast as possible an actually good answer to it in any shape or form whatsoever? Fix the combat or at least the progression leveling system instead of making all the content skippable or bordering on unsync levels...

The design is boring and bad, instead of fixing it, let's just give players ways to skip through it all faster? I actually can't believe I read this.

[Zadood]

On what metrics though? The higher your job level compared to the dungeon, the less damage output to make up for all the additional abilities? Jobs don't exactly have a linear progression in leveling, what would end up being fine in certain cases would go completely overboard either way in others.

On top of what people already brought up, you're literally introducing one more variable affecting damage (and wildly at that) on top of gear differences and skill level and you could end up with the same dungeons taking 30min with some groups and 5min with others.



I told you already, as a new player I would have absolutely hated:

1) a dungeon lasting barely 5min with mobs that keel over as soon as they get one hit
2) being essentially totally outmatched and useless compared to synced down players that come to run the roulette
3) rouletters are already speeding through everything like if their life depend on it, you'd essentially get the new praetorium sprout experience before they made cutscenes unskippable

Now, that's a valid point and reason I been asking for, but still, if combat system were fun to begin with, such issue would be significantly less likely happen.

Your logic also holds no ground whatsoever, if the combat and leveling design is dogwater, boring, janky unresponsive and not fun at all, then how is making the content skippable as fast as possible an actually good answer to it in any shape or form whatsoever? Fix the combat or at least the progression leveling system instead of making all the content skippable or bordering on unsync levels...

The design is boring and bad, instead of fixing it, let's just give players ways to skip through it all faster? I actually can't believe I read this.

If a disease can't be cured at all, might as well as ease the pain it wrought.

The thing is, the only way to fix it is to completely overhaul the combat system, something SQEX will rather shutdown FFXIV than actually overhaul it.
At this point, asking CBU3 for a glamour system overhaul, update the character creation is much more realistic wish compared to total FFXIV combat system overhaul.
So, with the total combat system overhaul possibility is completely out the window, let's ask for fix that actually within boundary of their ARR's spaghetti code.

If Yoshida-san didn't rush the FFXIV ARR to be launched within PS3 life's time, and instead, polish FFXIV ARR further more and release in PS4 life's time.
You and I would be complaining stuff other than this thread.

Another solution would be,
Let the player enter any dungeon with full job abilities, but at the time apply individual ilvl sync base on how much out-leveled players are compared to the dungeon they are in.

For example,
Satasha has 20 ilvl sync, if a player entered that is within 25lvl - 34lvl, the ilvl sync for that player would be 18 instead of 20, if 35lvl- 44lvl, the ilvl sync would be 16 instead of 20, and so on until 10 ilvl sync for folks that is max level

[Zordrage]

I don't know how they do it in other MMOs. I know XIV and how its stat scaling works though. Maybe instead of telling me that they do it right because they do, you should start telling me how they make it right to begin with?

Im not a dev so i wont because i don't know all the mechanics behind them.

Its also not my job to know how its done im a customer that wants a better gameplay experience.

All i can say that the many Online games i played there is like atleast 3 different ways Companies Do Low level Dungeon Scalling In both Tab target and Action Combat online games.
And neither of them Have the issues people are constantly bringing up with how it WOULD effect the game in a bad way...