Ray-Tracing? Physics? Open Zones?

[Azureskies01]

That's a shame, thanks for your reply :\... I do like to try and remain an optimistic person though, setting the new base requirements for PS5/XSX level come 8.0 if/when they most likely drop support for PS4/XOne(which will be 13 years old by the time of 8.0 in 2026 earliest) I would imagine there's more improvements they can make for the game hopefully with increased hardware baselines.

They *can* do a lot of things. However I don't see them doing another engine once over again for at least another 2 expansions. If they were going to do major MAJOR things under the hood this would have been the time to do it with Luminous Studios getting shuttered because of Forespoken. They would have had everyone that was any good at messing with the Luminous engine available to them to work on XIV for this engine update. However they did switch from DX9 to DX11 and it took them a long time to do so, could happen again i suppose. Also the devs would never switch to Vulkan even though they probably should as it would simplify supporting the Mac version but I'm guessing that isn't in the cards as it would take much longer and more work than going from 11 to 12. The biggest issue i see with them switching to DX12 (and i am NO expert in this so it is a stupidly simplified explanation of things) is memory management becomes the devs problem where as DX11 it is handled by the API itself. Memory management is one of the main factors in how the public perceives a game being "optimized" or not so it puts a lot more pressure on the devs and ....honestly I just don't think the XIV team is good enough to do it, at least not all at once or for a long time. Something like having the launcher have a beta DX12 version for 4 years or something might be in the cards but i dunno.

I get being optimistic about things but I take a more pragmatic approach. I know that it is a big deal for square to end support for consoles. You could argue that they even held on to the Ps3 for too long and many of the engines issues come from the Ps3 having 256MBs of VRAM and 256MBs of system RAM. However with the Ps4 you still have around 12 gigs of total RAM which is about what the normal mid range graphics card has today. I don't see them ending Ps4 support for another 2 expansions. I don't think they have a FSR type thing on Ps4 so i would guess they would be likely to add that to the console (depending on how many people still play on ps4) to extend its support even longer. So yeah, I'd say 9.0 or 10 before the Ps4 goes bye bye.


Ohh and the Xbox one isn't supported, just the X and S. You could make the case that the S is a slightly more powerful version of the XbOne and you would be right but microsoft has a policy that states you have to have your game come out and be supported by both the S and X, soooooooo. In 4+ years time you can blame microsoft if the ps4 and S still have support.

[PEANUT]

They *can* do a lot of things. However I don't see them doing another engine once over again for at least another 2 expansions. If they were going to do major MAJOR things under the hood this would have been the time to do it with Luminous Studios getting shuttered because of Forespoken. They would have had everyone that was any good at messing with the Luminous engine available to them to work on XIV for this engine update. However they did switch from DX9 to DX11 and it took them a long time to do so, could happen again i suppose. Also the devs would never switch to Vulkan even though they probably should as it would simplify supporting the Mac version but I'm guessing that isn't in the cards as it would take much longer and more work than going from 11 to 12. The biggest issue i see with them switching to DX12 (and i am NO expert in this so it is a stupidly simplified explanation of things) is memory management becomes the devs problem where as DX11 it is handled by the API itself. Memory management is one of the main factors in how the public perceives a game being "optimized" or not so it puts a lot more pressure on the devs and ....honestly I just don't think the XIV team is good enough to do it, at least not all at once or for a long time.
I get being optimistic about things but I take a more pragmatic approach. I know that it is a big deal for square to end support for consoles. You could argue that they even held on to the Ps3 for too long and many of the engines issues come from the Ps3 having 256MBs of VRAM and 256MBs of system RAM. However with the Ps4 you still have around 12 gigs of total RAM which is about what the normal mid range graphics card has today. I don't see them ending Ps4 support for another 2 expansions. I don't think they have a FSR type thing on Ps4 so i would guess they would be likely to add that to the console (depending on how many people still play on ps4) to extend its support even longer. So yeah, I'd say 9.0 or 10 before the Ps4 goes bye bye.

Thanks for your reply and explanation! I find all of this so fascinating! I forgot that the engine was in the similar family as their Luminous Engine, I wonder with all the years of work and customization's if it can even still be considered that? I wonder if there are any other technologies or plug-ins/add-ons they could utilize as support as well? I guess it's not that simple given it's an MMORPG?

Oh and yes, I think the whole Series S was just ridiculous, they should have just came out with the Series X but whatever... I don't think the graphics update is coming to PS4 though for 7.0 so that still gives me an inkling that they are gonna drop support for PS4 come 8.0 because any new content would have to be made with older graphics and would be more work for them no? I guess no one really knows their plans and we'll have to wait and see, but it's still fun to talk about it!

[Azureskies01]

I'm not sure how the fork of xiv's engine differs from the one they made ff15 or forespoken with but the xiv engine is speculated to be the same one they made 16 with as the dev team that made 16 also makes 14. I'm still pissed it make DT over a year late because if they wanted to make a devil may cry clone they should have named it something other than "Final Fantasy"... anyway. If that is true I would say there isn't a whole lot of difference if any in them as they all should have updated tools within the engine itself. Other engines such as frostbite or unreal generally have versions and every so often their tools get updated to that latest version while they are making games. Of course you can have an unreal game using the last supported version of UE3 or UE4 even though the current versions is 5. The **** show that was BF2042 showed us all what happens when your have underdeveloped tools in your engine and you try and make a game on an unstable foundation.

When thinking of dropping support for a platform you have to ask yourself why, and im not understanding why they would drop ps4 because some people want to say "well it would have RT (or another buzz word that doesn't mean a whole lot - like mesh shaders) in it if it didn't support Y platform". Also they wouldn't be working with "older graphics" they would just be using the compressed textures that they are using now. Think of it like having a low and medium preset on a computer, just because you select the new high preset it doesn't make the low or medium ones not exist.

The Ps3 had two 256MB chunks of memory to deal with and the GPU in it wasn't all that powerful. The ps4's weakness is its CPU however SE would have to come to the realization that their game just wouldn't run the new expansion of the game because of it. That is the only reason I think they would end support for the console. Just to add, the base Ps4 still has the same about of graphical power (or there abouts) as a the xbox S.

There are a lot of things that devs can do that help the game look better and don't effect performance at all. Digital Extremes (Warframe) had redone a lot of their engine much like how xiv is doing now and the system requirements didn't go up almost at all while looking much better.

Honestly you want to see the older consoles get dropped then keep pushing for CPU bound things to be put in the game and keep on yelling at SE to put RT in but I think both of those things are just a wasted effort. As long as they are getting a roi on the old consoles that is where the game will stay, or be supported anyway.

[PEANUT]

I'm not sure how the fork of xiv's engine differs from the one they made ff15 or forespoken with but the xiv engine is speculated to be the same one they made 16 with as the dev team that made 16 also makes 14. I'm still pissed it make DT over a year late because if they wanted to make a devil may cry clone they should have named it something other than "Final Fantasy"... anyway. If that is true I would say there isn't a whole lot of difference if any in them as they all should have updated tools within the engine itself. Other engines such as frostbite or unreal generally have versions and every so often their tools get updated to that latest version while they are making games. Of course you can have an unreal game using the last supported version of UE3 or UE4 even though the current versions is 5. The **** show that was BF2042 showed us all what happens when your have underdeveloped tools in your engine and you try and make a game on an unstable foundation.

When thinking of dropping support for a platform you have to ask yourself why, and im not understanding why they would drop ps4 because some people want to say "well it would have RT (or another buzz word that doesn't mean a whole lot - like mesh shaders) in it if it didn't support Y platform". Also they wouldn't be working with "older graphics" they would just be using the compressed textures that they are using now. Think of it like having a low and medium preset on a computer, just because you select the new high preset it doesn't make the low or medium ones not exist.

The Ps3 had two 256MB chunks of memory to deal with and the GPU in it wasn't all that powerful. The ps4's weakness is its CPU however SE would have to come to the realization that their game just wouldn't run the new expansion of the game because of it. That is the only reason I think they would end support for the console. Just to add, the base Ps4 still has the same about of graphical power (or there abouts) as a the xbox S.

There are a lot of things that devs can do that help the game look better and don't effect performance at all. Digital Extremes (Warframe) had redone a lot of their engine much like how xiv is doing now and the system requirements didn't go up almost at all while looking much better.

Honestly you want to see the older consoles get dropped then keep pushing for CPU bound things to be put in the game and keep on yelling at SE to put RT in but I think both of those things are just a wasted effort. As long as they are getting a roi on the old consoles that is where the game will stay, or be supported anyway.

But wouldn't it be more work on the devs having to make LLOD textures and such and then having to make the higher res for anything above a PS4?

[Azureskies01]

But wouldn't it be more work on the devs having to make LLOD textures and such and then having to make the higher res for anything above a PS4?

They are going to make a low preset on PC right? Plus I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding textures. They don't require (out of everything else in the game) a whole lot of CPU or GPU compute. They just require to be stored in RAM (or VRAM) which the ps4 has plenty of. So it would be much better for your case if you said "So they are just going to continue to have terrible shadow and lighting quality on ps4" and my answer would be the same, yes.

[Gokki]

Raytracing would be amazing, but that would mean completely redoing all the lighting in the entire game, giving up on PS4 support and a bunch of other things. At this point you would just release a new game.

Partial implementation like only shadows and reflections could work, but still means giving up on PS4, which i'm all for, but i guess it's important to SE/Sony.

[PEANUT]

Raytracing would be amazing, but that would mean completely redoing all the lighting in the entire game, giving up on PS4 support and a bunch of other things. At this point you would just release a new game.

Partial implementation like only shadows and reflections could work, but still means giving up on PS4, which i'm all for, but i guess it's important to SE/Sony.

But aren't they already redoing the lighting now for the whole game? I think it's great they decided NOW not to drop PS4 support given Covid's longer lasting impact and the fact that so many new players joined when they did it would alienate a lot of players, but I feel there's no excuse come 2026(or later) for people not switch over to a PS5 given that's almost 6 years since it launched and for them to drop the support.

[Taliriah]

Anything to the physics like hair and clothing, i assume needs a rewriting of the games engine which is most likely not going to happen anytime soon.

It already exists (things like floppy viera ears etc) but it seems that it doesn't update at a fixed rate independent from rendering (which is the "correct" way to do physics simulation in a game), so with a high enough framerate you don't notice it because it settles too fast. They can probably fix that without "rewriting the engine", but it may be a significant refactor (and probably not the kind of things that has a good chance of getting a very high development priority)

[Azureskies01]

Raytracing would be amazing, but that would mean completely redoing all the lighting in the entire game, giving up on PS4 support and a bunch of other things. At this point you would just release a new game.

Partial implementation like only shadows and reflections could work, but still means giving up on PS4, which i'm all for, but i guess it's important to SE/Sony.

I already explained why they would never do this or at the very least not until they get the PC version on DX12 or Vulkan. Which they won't do any time soon.

[LianaThorne]

But aren't they already redoing the lighting now for the whole game? I think it's great they decided NOW not to drop PS4 support given Covid's longer lasting impact and the fact that so many new players joined when they did it would alienate a lot of players, but I feel there's no excuse come 2026(or later) for people not switch over to a PS5 given that's almost 6 years since it launched and for them to drop the support.

To be fair, the shortage from when it launched ended at the end of 2023 I believe? Earlier this year? It's also being predicted that we'll see the PS6 in 2028. If people haven't swapped over by 2026, I wouldn't really blame anyone for waiting till the PS6 at that point since you'd only be getting 2 years of it being "relevant" compared to those who were lucky to get a PS5 in 2020. That's an 8 year use period compared to a 2 year one and waiting to upgrade to the PS6 will ultimately provide more mileage for the price tag.