The problem with Tripling Down on Shadowbringers Job Design

[Valence]

Yeah it was just unwanted because it couldn't deal enough damage, which in a way, is even more sloppy and less complicated to address..

[HyperiusUltima]

PLD locked out of HW because magic couldn't be blocked. Thank god they fixed that. There definitely wasn't a four month period this expansion where PLD was not wanted because it could not block incoming damage.

The issue at hand was damage and raid design being designed around Warrior’s Holmgang(Bleeds in Abyssos every raidwide + TB) which is dominant in cheesing mechanics and Tankbusters especially when paired with Bloodwhetting.

Also, the reason people didn’t pick PLD for P4S/P8S revolves around its damage, I believe - trying to fit everything in 2m windows and during on/off phases where melee are forced to disengage for mechanics.

I’ll say it again, Abyssos broke the camel’s back due to the design of P8S in general since before rework it was considered really bad because it couldn’t do what all 3 other tanks did: Huge big d*ck burst damage on demand. PLD had sustained damage for that tier via DoTs and their general rotation between Goring/RA back then. Now? It’s bastardized Holy Warrior with a side of GNB Blasting Zone on top.

[fulminating]

To be honest every job outside of summoner was at its peak in stormblood, every change after as been worse and worse to all the older jobs. Summoner in EW FINALLY became what it should have been in 2.0 a real summoner not a wow afflication warlock like it was.

I'm sorry but original ast in stormblood was about the coolest and funnest job to play, and if you were smart and knew when and how to use your cards you could basicly turn your team to gods. For example when arrow gave haste it was amazing on blms

Scholar peaked in heavensward and summoner they were getting really close to nailing between sb and shb. Smn is significantly less fun in ew and presumably dawntrail than it was prior to being remade in black mage’s image.

Blue mage still captures the traditional summoner fantasy more fully than (n)ewsmn as it has a flexible and broad suite of spells with varying impact and effects while not being built on the skeleton of a pet job. Prior to endwalker I did not know there was this unhappy union of pet job and black mage, and yet here we are.

[Rozeee]

The issue at hand was damage and raid design being designed around Warrior’s Holmgang(Bleeds in Abyssos every raidwide + TB) which is dominant in cheesing mechanics and Tankbusters especially when paired with Bloodwhetting.

Also, the reason people didn’t pick PLD for P4S/P8S revolves around its damage, I believe - trying to fit everything in 2m windows and during on/off phases where melee are forced to disengage for mechanics.

I’ll say it again, Abyssos broke the camel’s back due to the design of P8S in general since before rework it was considered really bad because it couldn’t do what all 3 other tanks did: Huge big d*ck burst damage on demand. PLD had sustained damage for that tier via DoTs and their general rotation between Goring/RA back then. Now? It’s bastardized Holy Warrior with a side of GNB Blasting Zone on top.

Sad to think that old PLD died because the devs mistuned a single fight. The one that they later nerfed and was completely fine for PLD on the later weeks. I really would rather have PLD unviable for week 1 than whatever we have right now.

[Silhart]

The funny part is that "HW bad because PLD got locked out of 2 tiers because of heavy magic damage that they can't blocked" but "EW good even though PLD got locked out for 2 tiers because their damage sucked".

End result is the same, but EW is better for some reason.

It's doubly entertaining knowing it will definitely happen again next expansion, especially as jobs continue to have their gameplay simplified. Since everyone can now (and will be expected to) play their job at 100% potential, DPS checks will likely need to be tightened further to account for this, and even the slightest imbalance will become glaringly noticeable under these conditions. At the beginning of Asphodelos I knew of some statics asking their Ranged DPS to switch to BRD to help with their P3S clear, which brought forth the classic never-ending argument of "but I don't need to; we already have the DPS" vs, "but it would make our lives so much easier". Can't wait to see this happen again next tier. Essentially we lost a large chunk of job identity and gameplay to stop jobs from getting locked out, and that was successful... in making the jobs feel like ass to play. Oh, and people still got locked out. Awesome.

_____

Even if CBU3 managed to achieve a world where everything is perfectly balanced and no one is excluded from content, it's not worth it if the jobs are boring and soulless to play. I'd prefer fun jobs any day, even with all the imbalances and negative experiences with PF that might bring. I've lived through some awful MMORPGs where I had the misfortune of choosing the worst class in the game, and at this point I'm considering going back to those games instead of playing Dawntrail just so I can feel something.

[Graveyardprincess]

Scholar peaked in heavensward and summoner they were getting really close to nailing between sb and shb. Smn is significantly less fun in ew and presumably dawntrail than it was prior to being remade in black mage’s image.

Blue mage still captures the traditional summoner fantasy more fully than (n)ewsmn as it has a flexible and broad suite of spells with varying impact and effects while not being built on the skeleton of a pet job. Prior to endwalker I did not know there was this unhappy union of pet job and black mage, and yet here we are.

Ew is horrible in alot of ways but honestly it did Summoner a great service into turning it what it should have been all along, SUMMONER IN FF as always been a prime pet user not a wow fanboys warlock lol and honestly the summoner abilitys should be removed from blue mages and given to summoner. Summoner shouldn't even have ruin it should only have things related to summoning period

and the only reason im not playing it in dt, is the stupid devs just gave it another stupid bahamut and not levi,shiva,ramuh etc and if they wanted a 3rd set for them there was always alexander,anima,ark etc


and if im being honest the only reason we arent getting more pet reletaed stuff is yoshi p probely got owned in wow pvp by hunters and unholy dks, ice mages, demo warlocks and cried alot over it lol

in fact in 2.0 smn should have never been a part of acn job, it should have been a part of black mage/thaum if anything