The problem with Tripling Down on Shadowbringers Job Design

[Aravell]

So why is it your criteria stopped at that point to not include Dancer? Why do you not then take into account other factors, like the NIN and MNK have different combo structures? How about the fact they have different considerations before burst? how about during burst? Downtime, gap closing etc.

I only made that comparison to mainly prove a point and that point is, you get different results depending on what criteria you are using to judge things. I can just as easily paint with a finer brush to point out the differences that then makes your brush look broad by comparison. The question then is, what size brush do we use to compare.

So what exactly is your point here? Are you saying that I'm not allowed to point out blatant similarities between jobs because you can wield a bigger brush than me? I don't see your point at all.

[Mikey_R]

So what exactly is your point here? Are you saying that I'm not allowed to point out blatant similarities between jobs because you can wield a bigger brush than me? I don't see your point at all.

The exact same thing I've always been saying. People are to focused on certain aspects of jobs and ignore the rest. By doing this, it makes everything seem the same, when they are infact, different.

But what is "being inspired by" exactly? How do you define this inspiration between pvp and pve kits? We both can play at this little game.

That's pure sophistry you've been doing since the beginning and you know it. You know what people mean, your strategy is just to derail everything into meaningless [B]minutiae that completely misses the bigger picture.[B]

We could tell you that two inner release type bursts feel the same, you'd still come up and tell us "akshtually, the GCD used in both don't have the same potency so they're technically very different!"

I will say, I wasn't the first person to use Inspiration in regards to the exercise, that would be the person I quoted, however, for me, inspiration in this regard it is being used to refer to looking at something, taking some ideas from that design and then adapting it to better suit something else. My whole argument was, take a PvP set and adapt it to a PvE environment. The result will likely be something fairly similar to the PvE set. Something additional to that, considering the current topic, I would most likely be able to take whatever you make and make the claim it is the same as every other job because it shares this one thing with another job.

'Inner Release bursts' feel the same because you have taken away the nuance that makes them feel different. Sorry if you don't agree.

As for the bold, it is people missing the minutiae that is the issue. Poeple have defined jobs by the fact they have a 60 second button and a 120 second button and ignore everything else that makes it unique. If anyone is being dishonest, it is the people making the broad claims.

[Aravell]

The exact same thing I've always been saying. People are to focused on certain aspects of jobs and ignore the rest. By doing this, it makes everything seem the same, when they are infact, different.

Just because some of the job is different doesn't mean I can't point out the blatant similarities between jobs. Saying you can paint with a broader or narrower brush does not change the fact that some aspects are extremely similar.

Like saying MNK and NIN has different ways to build their gauge does not change the fact that all the things I mentioned function the same between both. But if you're going to nitpick that Trick Attack is a debuff and Riddle of Fire is a buff, then I cannot help you, I'll just say that I disagree that there's as much difference as you're seeing.