The problem with Tripling Down on Shadowbringers Job Design

[Aword3213]

"8.0 will have more job identity"

Did they forgot?

They must have acknowledged job identity crisis to plan such a thing. However, why did they choose to delay it until 8.0 when job gameplay is core to both casual and hardcore content?

[HyperiusUltima]

"8.0 will have more job identity"

Did they forgot?

I haven't forgotten them saying that. What I'd want is for them to address the elephant in the room(WAR) and then look at gearing jobs more towards individuality in some aspect. And sure, players will optimize the fun out of a game - we've seen that time and time again; but at the very least give people some expression with their job to feel as if they aren't the same as a WHM spamming Glare, or feel lesser than all the other tanks combined because Physical Damage is a sore spot for them(DRK).

I'm hoping they read into it hard with the 7.0 patch notes because I will be jumping on Early Access Day 1 on release.

[Rozeee]

I haven't forgotten them saying that. What I'd want is for them to address the elephant in the room(WAR) and then look at gearing jobs more towards individuality in some aspect. And sure, players will optimize the fun out of a game - we've seen that time and time again; but at the very least give people some expression with their job to feel as if they aren't the same as a WHM spamming Glare, or feel lesser than all the other tanks combined because Physical Damage is a sore spot for them(DRK).

I'm hoping they read into it hard with the 7.0 patch notes because I will be jumping on Early Access Day 1 on release.

Wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the devs forgetting the lessons they've learned from 2.0. By the time 8.0 comes out, I don't even know if I will still be playing the game. Them being this relaxed about it isn't helping.

[Aravell]

I honestly don't think "players will optimise the fun out of the game" is a good excuse to design the fun out of your own game first.

Players optimising the fun out of the game is their own choice and only affects their own experience. Designing jobs to chase the endless unattainable perfect balance affects everyone.

They should just design jobs to be fun and have their own originality and nuance while leaving whoever wants to optimise their fun out to do so.

[Oizen]

"8.0 will have more job identity"

Did they forgot?

I'm not convinced the developers even know what that means

[Supersnow845]

The stupid thing is that PIC seems to be a genuinely interesting job that’s showing a lot of creativity even if you can draw parallels to other jobs

Being able to invert the 1-2-3 at will with gauge. Having the 3 different motifs that each have their own unique upsides and downsides. The fact that the party buff has a built in SPS buff meaning it isn’t just about stuffing in your highest potency attacks but rather the attacks that most benefit from a SPS reduction (I can’t think of another job that actively encourages the use of part of your filler rotation in its burst window as reversed aetherhue benefits most from the SPS buff

It’s like they took the best notes of NIN DNC and BLM and made a class that doesn’t feel like any of them but you can tell is inspired by them

(Note this is all speculation around information we have gleaned from the live letter)

[VentVanitas]

Picto looks like a caster that actually seems to be designed with modern encounter design in mind without leaning too far into braindead SMN levels. while it has a pretty straightforward kit, its weird pseudo-BLM stance has interesting implications for how it may potentially interact with fights. it's pretty much what I wanted Black/White Shift to be if it ever got carried over from PvP into PvE.

[MagiusNecros]

Picto looks like a caster that actually seems to be designed with modern encounter design in mind without leaning too far into braindead SMN levels. while it has a pretty straightforward kit, its weird pseudo-BLM stance has interesting implications for how it may potentially interact with fights. it's pretty much what I wanted Black/White Shift to be if it ever got carried over from PvP into PvE.

Only at level cap. Have a feeling they will repeat same mistakes and low level content will be terrible to play. Lvl 50 Reaper and Lvl 70+ Reaper play so differently from each other. Level 30ish content will be even worse.

Pictomancer which I plan to make my main class looks like the big winner in classes to play in Dawntrail with a rewarding builder spender component in it's casting rotation and very interesting ways to approach encounters with it's sketch rotation.

The ideas on what to do with Rainbow Road casts or Element Swap is a fun thing to think about or how to weave casting in with Sketch attacks will be fun to think about.

Viper on the other hand will feel like high APM but is just going to combo cycle for maintaining self buffs and becoming Reaper 2.0 during Awaken which is a 1 to 1 copy of Enshroud. The worry here is the same with low level Reaper in that it doesn't really come together until level cap.

And sadly from experience they design everything around level cap instead of level progression.

[Supersnow845]

Only at level cap. Have a feeling they will repeat same mistakes and low level content will be terrible to play. Lvl 50 Reaper and Lvl 70+ Reaper play so differently from each other. Level 30ish content will be even worse.

Pictomancer which I plan to make my main class looks like the big winner in classes to play in Dawntrail with a rewarding builder spender component in it's casting rotation and very interesting ways to approach encounters with it's sketch rotation.

The ideas on what to do with Rainbow Road casts or Element Swap is a fun thing to think about or how to weave casting in with Sketch attacks will be fun to think about.

Viper on the other hand will feel like high APM but is just going to combo cycle for maintaining self buffs and becoming Reaper 2.0 during Awaken which is a 1 to 1 copy of Enshroud. The worry here is the same with low level Reaper in that it doesn't really come together until level cap.

And sadly from experience they design everything around level cap instead of level progression.

The skill level from each of the important skills is as follows

Level 10; self shield
Level 20; dash
Level 25; full AOE 1-2-3
Level 30; creature motif with Pom wings and moogle beam
Level 50; full weapon motif
Level 60; inverted artherhue combo
Level 70; landscape canvas
Level 80; white holy
Level 90; black comet
Level 92; rainbow road
Level 100; star prism

I couldn’t see the unknown skill, the AOE utility, the 1-2-3 or the second half of creature motif

[MagiusNecros]

The skill level from each of the important skills is as follows

Level 10; self shield
Level 20; dash
Level 25; full AOE 1-2-3
Level 30; creature motif with Pom wings and moogle beam
Level 50; full weapon motif
Level 60; inverted artherhue combo
Level 70; landscape canvas
Level 80; white holy
Level 90; black comet
Level 92; rainbow road
Level 100; star prism

I couldn’t see the unknown skill, the AOE utility, the 1-2-3 or the second half of creature motif

Here. This gives a good rundown until I assume when we get a info blowout in June or maybe even May 31st. Media tour ends on May 30th.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._simple_maybe/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ancer_summary/

That's good info on the level requirements on the skills. I gotta rewatch the LL footage again.