The problem with Tripling Down on Shadowbringers Job Design

[HyperiusUltima]

I am still looking to Dawntrail with the story in mind, but the one thing that I dislike? Job Design.

I'm talking about the abilities and attacks that make the job. While it's impossible to even talk about potencies, I'm more looking more at just what things jobs are getting in Dawntrail and where they've taken their philosophy since they screwed themselves in Endwalker by tripling down. While I'm sure we'll still have the 2m Meta and all that, we're adding Viper and Pictomancer into the equation which complicate their balancing even further. There's a bit of history to be had here, and it'll take a while to read.

Since Shadowbringers, we reset everything from Stormblood(which, honestly, was the height of raiding due to how well designed jobs were at the time and their application aside from WHM). The issue at hand is that while we did reset things to be less complicated, what happened was the butchering of DRK's identity, jobs becoming more Warrior-esque for Tanks, Healers nearly playing identical to WHM(hence where people started complaining about 1111111 spam in Endwalker), while Ranged DPS were becoming less and less needed due to the 1% Stat Buff.

Since then, we stepped into the realm of 2 Minute Meta where everyone's buffs/debuffs are all burst at 2m for raid design, as well as the FURTHER butchering of DRK and the uprising of WAR to its current state. Oh, did I forget to mention content being able to be cleared WITHOUT A HEALER? Yeah - that. That should never happen in a game that has a focus on having a Trinity system. PERIOD. The biggest offenders? PLD and WAR. While PLD wasn't AS crazy, it could still outlast an entire boss fight if managed carefully. WAR on the other hand was a complete and utter monster. One of the things that was noticed was the dichotomy that PLD/WAR and DRK/GNB had been pushed into - something that Healers are familiar with in regards to Pure/Shield healing, except it's instead Party Utility/Damage.

When Abyssos came out, PLD was pushed out of raiding the tier due to the nature of their kit: Damage was low, but party utility was high. Made sense right? Wrong. Raid Design obviously was messed up this tier, and it took people longer to clear with PLD compared to having a DRK/GNB combo. WAR on the other hand was on the low end as well, but still had ridiculous self-healing tools to work with for tense situations. Then came P8S which broke the camel's back... Since Boss HP was a major issue for people, the community started talking about issues about a certain Stat that was focused on since Stormblood: Critical Hit.

For those who don't know, Critical Hit scales higher than Direct Hit the higher that number is depending on tiering(not going to go into numerics here), which was their band-aid. Everyone and their mother wanted Critical Hit because it scaled the hardest, while some balanced some of their stats for Direct Hit as a cushion in case you didn't Crit. People complained about Crit Variance because in P8S, the boss's HP was too high for normal non-crits to actually beat the DPS check of Phase 1. You NEEDED Critical Hits. Until they adjusted it, things were pretty bad out the gate. PLD/WAR were essentially shafted for DRK/GNB while you could take a handful of DPS and some good Healers to clear.

Then...came 6.3. Because PLD could not effectively burst well out the gate for the Buff Phase during Phase 2, it essentially had the weakest burst and well...when we're talking about Boss HP? effectively was reworked. Goring Blade DoT was gone, and instead they made Goring Blade similar to Blasting Zone - hit it and forget it until it comes back up. This kind of ruined people's identity of PLD while others welcomed it, so it was a mixed bag in regards to the rework - HOWEVER. WAR got more bells and whistles in the next raid balance patch.

WAR got more damage, a HoT added to Shake It Off, and became essentially top tier for the remainder of Anabaseios. So, when was the last mid-Expansion major job change? Oh right - 6.3 - but that was for *raid design purposes*, wasn't it? Well, why did WAR get this? Because of a vocal minority who want their job to be the best. Historically, since Heavensward, WAR has never been NOT chosen as the top 2 jobs to take - only this expansion that happened. This controversy is the same as when WAR had Shake It Off changed from an Esuna in Stormblood to a raid-wide Shield.

When we go into Dawntrail, I'm seeing more of the same, except with small things to placate the extremely annoyed Healer Playerbase(seeing more than one action be used for healing, while getting MORE healing tools, supposedly) and other things to further the design on DPS.

And while I haven't said anything on DPS, it's because DPS is the most played job. Why? Because DPS' kits are diverse in usage and are a unique playstyle. In Dawntrail? All the Tanks look/feel the same in regards to each other. All the Healers look/feel the same in regards to each other other than new jingling keys to distract them from the real problem. Why is that since Shadowbringers?

It's because the Development Team is scared of job complexity. While accessibility in itself is a great idea, you can't hyperfocus on it to make your game overly simple in execution. Your jobs do not become interesting just because they can make a song and dance fun in a particular fight in Raids - doing that on a repeated basis eventually makes the fight lose its flavor and makes people turn back to how the job feels.

The only way they can really make Tanks and Healers feel better is by having them bring unique things to the table that aren't game-breaking(staring at you WAR...) and can provide unique strategies on a job composition basis instead of just "Every Tank and Healer is the Same - do X and Y." And I know that is a pipe dream, but they need to do something to help excite the playerbase, and the Job Action Reveal ain't it chief.


TLDR; Shadowbringers Job Design was bad for Tanks/Healers. Endwalker Job Design was bad for everyone. Dawntrail Job Design? It's currently not looking good for everyone. AGAIN. Do something about it to make Tank/Healer fun again without breaking the game with one job.

[Jeeqbit]

Stormblood(which, honestly, was the height of raiding due to how well designed jobs were at the time and their application aside from WHM)

I felt that Stormblood removed most of the jank and useless actions and ideas, but there was still a bit which Shadowbringers cleaned up tbh.

what happened was the butchering of DRK's identity

Well I would say the focus was changed from the Abyssal Drain heals over to absorbing things with TBN. I can understand why they moved away from Dark Arts just because it was meme'd so much by the community. To be honest, I always liked Dark Passenger and wished it had more involvement so getting Flood of Shadow to use regularly felt really good.

jobs becoming more Warrior-esque for Tanks

Well 50% of people using tank stance 100% of the time, and the other 50% using DPS stance 100% of the time, combined with how it was hard to explain enmity combos as a concept, made it understandable to me.

Healers nearly playing identical to WHM(hence where people started complaining about 1111111 spam in Endwalker)

Arguably, WHM had multiple DoTs in Stormblood though, although I'm not quite so sure they had intended them all to be used like that which is why they made an upgrade system.

Since then, we stepped into the realm of 2 Minute Meta where everyone's buffs/debuffs are all burst at 2m for raid design

It's sort of logical because raid groups were already aligning them and giving themselves an advantage over those who did not, then complaining that raids were designed for those who did not align them. Their solution? Force them to be aligned so the raids can have an equally tight DPS check for all players. Personally I'd rather they just remove raid-wide damage buffs so that jobs don't have to be designed around this boring 2-minute constraint, or make it so only 1 role type has a damage buff and if you have multiple of them you lose damage.

the FURTHER butchering of DRK

Doesn't feel that different in EW, other than the 60 second constraints.

the uprising of WAR to its current state.

It kinda made sense to increase tank survival with the incoming damage in EW leveling dungeons and to balance the other tanks with WAR and DRK, but it really went overboard to where healers are flat out not needed at all compared to HW and SB. Hopefully this will be fixed.

While PLD wasn't AS crazy, it could still outlast an entire boss fight if managed carefully.

Well honestly PLD has always been one of the first to be able to solo stuff due to Clemency, but obviously that required sacrificing damage and now they don't even need to.

Goring Blade DoT was gone, and instead they made Goring Blade similar to Blasting Zone - hit it and forget it until it comes back up. This kind of ruined people's identity of PLD while others welcomed it

Functionally, PLD is GNB now but with less weaving, like how WAR is DRK with less weaving. But I think its "lore" identity as a holy knight with a shield/sword/desire to protect remains tbh.

When we go into Dawntrail, I'm seeing more of the same

I think what we are seeing is a solution to replace DoTs or other keep-up buffs by using symbols or Dragon Kick > Bootshine type mechanics to make multiple combos relevant. Hopefully that will allow PLD to feel like more than just Royal Authority spam for example. It looks like Atonement will become like a second combo and a further double down on the Requiescat/Inner Release-enabled attacks.

Why is that since Shadowbringers?

It's because the Development Team is scared of job complexity.

I think it is because of balance and accessibility both.

[Mikey_R]

It's because the Development Team is scared of job complexity.

Can you define job complexity? What would make a job complex? Does complexity not disappear once you have a certain level of mastery in that job?

[iVolke]

What would make a job complex?

Having more than 2 buttons to press

[MagiusNecros]

Critical thinking and high level gameplay not allowed in XIV. Just be like Dawntrail(yes that's right) DRK and hit your 1-2-3 over and over again. Even worse with Healers where you will will hit your 1-1-1 rotation over and over.

If Job's had identity like they do in PvP they would be more engaging to play. Such a shame they make PvE so braindead.

[ty_taurus]

I felt that Stormblood removed most of the jank and useless actions and ideas, but there was still a bit which Shadowbringers cleaned up tbh.

Me, a Stormblood Scholar player:

"Hey, I see you're taking my trash out for me. That's great, thank you. But also, why did rip my stove out, and where are you taking it, my TV, my mattress, and my dog?"

[GoatOfWar]

I'm just not going to tank in Dawntrail.
Let them feel the queue times. Warrior mains will fix it.

[Valence]

It's not so much that they decided they were afraid of job complexity suddenly after 6+ years of gameplay with a semblance of it, it's just they decided halfway for some reason to make their game into a different game altogether while alienating half the veteran playerbase in the process.

They do say they care about player's feedback and implement changes based upon it, and in a way, it's partially true, but only when it comes to minute details, number adjustments, and little ability changes here and there. When it comes to the bigger picture, they stay in utter silence, because that feedback is incompatible with what they envision for their new game direction. Sometimes it feels like some people in the game design department is hellbent on going all the way down to a model that they personally like, at the expense of everything that came before. It is not just about the natural evolution of a game that you can expect between expansion anymore, i'ts a radical shift that happened right in shadowbringers for a reason or another, and they seem perfectly happy with it, because apparently their veteran players only matter when they were 1.0 players and can get cool tattoos and reduced monthly fees.

[MagiusNecros]

They oversimplify the gameplay to draw in new players. The old guard is just the elephant in the room at this point. Shame they continually forget or disregard how they got this far.

[Sjol]

It's because the Development Team is scared of job complexity.

I very much doubt they're scared of complexity. Why would they be? You outlined the actual worry yourself -- a very reasonable fear that their job design will lock jobs out of prog content and the race for firsts.

Balancing jobs against fights is incredibly difficult at the extremes as shown by not just this game but other MMOs as well. The goal of making jobs feel different and jobs be balanced are at opposition. I don't envy the job designers who are having to do this.