SE, if you're reworking Jobs in 8.0 anyway, just give us Levi, Ramuh, and Shiva NOW!

[Eorzean_username]

Starting Disclaimer: Remembering the humans behind the designs

To SE / "CBU3" / Mr. Yoshida / the Job Design Team / the Community Moderators / the Unpaid Interns / or, whoever is actually reading this...

...Let me first clarify that I do understand that, ultimately, you and your designers want to create a good game that makes your audience happy. And I do understand that you devote immense amounts of time and energy into trying to do exactly-that.

Please understand, in return, that any hostility or harsh criticism that I seem to present is not intended as malice towards the actual individuals and humans working on FFXIV.

Rather, what I write stems from my own continued passion about FFXIV, and my own desire to try to make it the best experience possible for myself and my fellow players, based on my own experience and judgments.

So, please be clear — I do appreciate the reality, regardless of how much I may disagree with some of your design choices, that those choices are ultimately born from the same sort of passion and desire.

And in turn, I hope that the players and the developers can continue to maintain a productive and mutual dialogue about the future of Job decisions in FFXIV.

Understanding the Final Fantasy fan's "Summoner Fantasy".

SE, please understand — for the average Final Fantasy Summoner fan, the Job's fantasy is, if forced to choose, more about "quantity" than "quality".

For people passionate about the Final Fantasy Summoner fantasy throughout the eras of the Final Fantasy series, the fun of Summoner is — first and foremost — about finding and collecting a vast stable of exotic, mythical creatures and beings to choose-from, and call-upon aid from.

In a sense, one could say that Final Fantasy Summoner's most "core appeal" has always been something akin to "Mythological Pokémon".

Thus, denying Summoner access to a vast number of its classic Final Fantasy "Pokémon" is very frustrating to Summoner fans, and damages the enjoyment and fantasy of the FFXIV Summoner play-experience.

So please, I implore you, SE — on this point, do not let-down Summoner fans. Please find a way to provide some form of access to the "missing Summons" during this upcoming 7.x era of FFXIV.

If it's too late for anything more sophisticated, then just give us "animation swaps" for the 3 preexisting "Gem Phases".

SE, if you are explicitly planning to completely-rework Jobs in 8.0 anyway, then there is no need to become overly-concerned about ideal design philosophies for 7.0 at this point... correct?

Thus, if Summoners are forced to choose — for the duration of the upcoming 2+ years of 7.0-7.58 era — between having superficial aesthetic changes, and having no additional Summons at all...

...then, I believe that the vast majority of Summoner players would prefer to have access to the "missing Summons" in some form, even if it must occur as a very simplistic addition to the Job, mechanically.

Therefore, I argue that the most efficient and expedient solution at this moment would be to simply make 7.0 Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva an "aesthetic swap", which is otherwise mechanically-identical to the preexisting Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda mechanics.

Examples of how the animation-swaps could function mechanically.

Shiva (Diamond)

• Mimics: Ruby Ifrit
• Hailstorm
  • SMN generates a Staff of Ice in their hands
  • Mechanics imitate Ifrit "Ruby Rite" as Ice Damage
• Avalanche
  • SMN generates a Bow of Ice in their hands
  • Shoots an Arrow of Ice at the target, then teleports to the Target's location.
  • Mechanics imitate Ifrit "Crimson Cyclone" as Ice Damage
• Icebrand
  • Combo action: Avalanche
  • SMN generates a Sword of Ice in their hands
  • Mechanics imitate Ifrit "Crimson Strike" as Ice Damage

Ramuh (Amethyst)

• Mimics: Topaz Titan
• Amethyst Rite
  • Mechanics imitate Titan "Topaz Rite" as Lightning Damage
• Shock Strike
  • Mechanics imitate Titan "Mountain Buster" as Lightning Damage

Leviathan (Aquamarine)

• Mimics: Emerald Garuda
• Body Slam and Spinning Dive
  • "Body Slam" automatically changes to "Spinning Dive" after being used.
  • "Spinning Dive" automatically changes back to "Body Slam" after being used.
  • "Body Slam" causes a spectral Leviathan to smash horizontally across the Target.
  • "Spinning Dive" causes a spectral Leviathan to shoot-out from the Summoner towards the Target.
  • Mechanics otherwise imitate Garuda "Emerald Rite" as Water Damage
• Whirlpool
  • Mechanics imitate Garuda "Slipstream" as Water Damage

Fitting additional Summons into the wider rotation.

In the interest maximum development expediency, one set of Gems can be granted by the new Solar Bahamut, and the other set of Gems can be granted by Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix.

Thus, on "even minutes", Summoner would summon Solar Bahamut, Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva.

And on "odd minutes", Summoner would summon (Allagan Bahamut / Phoenix), Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda.

This would establish a rhythm of alternating between "things that are new and exciting" during "big burst" phases, and then "things that are comfortable and familiar" during "off-burst" phases.

Of course, this is not the only possible way of working the remaining Summons into the preexisting rotation, but is just meant as an example of how it could be done "unintrusively", and without requiring extensive balancing considerations, nor late-stage rotational re-works.

Of course, I think that Summoner also still has many other issues that would, ideally, be addressed — but at this point, it no longer seems feasible to do so for the 7.x design-period.

I do think that there are myriad other issues with the Summoner design that was implemented in 6.0.

For example, I think that the 6.0 Summoner rotation has lost much of the nuance and complexity that made Summoner interesting and engaging in prior eras of FFXIV, and I can imagine many ways that I would change that — but such changes are, unfortunately, not realistic to expect to implement so closely to 7.0 release.

As well, I think that Actions such as Energy Drain, Ruin, and Fester no longer feel like they make thematic sense for the reimagined Summoner.

I also think that Carbuncle has become too passive and meaningless, and that an "Automaton Queen" or "Living Shadow" button that temporarily super-charges Carbuncle into a more powerful form would be beneficial to justifying Carbuncle's continued presence on the battlefield.

However, I personally consider all of these problems less significant than the fundamental lack of "Fantasy Satisfaction" that Summoner has been plagued-by since Heavensward, and which the 6.0 System has presented a wide-open path to remedying.

Thus, if there is no time for any more-sophisticated design changes, then I implore SE's designers to please find some way to still implement Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva, in some form, for 7.0 release.

If only one change can be made before 7.0 release, then I believe that granting Summoners access to their missing "classic Final Fantasy Summons" of Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva would alleviate disappointment — and generate excitement about the Summoner Job — for the largest and broadest selection of Summoner players.

Or, in other words... while the community of Summoner players is certainly sharply-divided on whether or not they approve or disapprove of the 6.0 Summoner mechanical design, I believe that most Summoner players are united in their frustration at not being granted access to Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva — especially after 6.0's redesign made it mechanically-obvious how to do so.

Thus, I argue here that, while finding a way to satisfy Summoner players "in general", mechanically, seems to be a very daunting and difficult challenge...

...the implementation of these "missing Summons" would be a "low-hanging fruit" that could generate significant good-will, and "tide players over" for another expansion's duration, until whatever SE's designers are planning to do in 8.0 or beyond.

As such — SE, I urge you to please strongly-reconsider your decision to ignore the significant volume of player-requests that have been asking for Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva since Heavensward, and especially since Endwalker.

To whatever Developer or Communicator has read this — thank you for your time, attention, and consideration.

[Eorzean_username]

(The following image is automatically downscaled by the FFXIV Forum. A full-resolution Imgur version is available here: https://i.imgur.com/WFEOGqf.png)

[Flana]

I also think that Carbuncle has become too passive and meaningless, and that an "Automaton Queen" or "Living Shadow" button that temporarily super-charges Carbuncle into a more powerful form would be beneficial to justifying Carbuncle's continued presence on the battlefield.

Nope, hard nope. You do not want this. The less the rat has to do the 'better' Summoner feels. If you want to have a pet that actually does anything, the first step will be to delete the god awful demi-summon system and replace it with literally anything else. Carbuncle cannot be allowed to do anything because it is literally dead half your rotation. Clearly SE is incapable of adding a 2nd pet slot or they would have done it by now, so something has to give. Either demi-summoning stays and carbuncle does nothing more than shake its glowing butt at things, or demi-summoning goes in the garbage and we can actually have pet actions back.

[Sjol]

Jobs are locked for at least 7.0, if not 7.1. And if they just did animation swaps, I'm sure the complaints would start coming in about how terrible they are at their jobs and couldn't come up with anything meaningful. I think at this point they're probably best to just let the feedback roll in and figure out what 8.0 is going to look like.

[Sjol]

Eh.. we have about a month until Dawntrail, I'd hope most people would understand anything more than the above mentioned Gem swaps would be unfeasible. Yes it's "lazy", but I'd rather them be lazy and superficially satisfy us than sit on their hands and do nothing for 2+ years.

Even with a month, I doubt they have the time. Every resource is probably booked for the remaining month and maybe even working overtime. Whatever we're going to get at launch has been set for months and they're just desperately trying to get there without making too many cuts.

And while I would hope the community would be understanding, my experience has been the opposite.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I love the detail that has been put into this! Im pretty sure they’re already done with the jobs for DT though, so we’ll be stuck waiting until 8.0. But I’m really hoping they look into this, and take it seriously enough to start working on, because we want the rest of our elemental summons!

I wouldn’t call it an “animation swap,” so much as complimentary actions… what you’ve described here are unique attacks. I’m sure the potencies would remain equivalent to the other set of summons, but these are more than just a reskin. They capture the essence of their primals, which is something I think most SMNs would enjoy.

The devs say they’re looking to increase job identity, while addressing button bloat. They built a good template for that with SMN, now they need to fill it in. The new triad’s buttons can take over our gems just like the current triad does. I really thought we’d be getting it this time, but as it is, it’s still my favorite job. I just want them to take the next logical step!

Just my opinion on a couple other things… I’ve always associated Shiva with Sapphire. I know, Diamond Dust, but her color is clearly blue. I just want a Sapphire Carbuncle glamour! lol I guess there are blue diamonds though… but that’s another thing right there, instant pet glamour options to match the new gems.

As for Energy Drain, Ruin and Fester, these “filler” actions serve the purpose of being able to either be weaved into combos (like your demi phases) or for those times where you want to hold off on starting your rotation because of a particular mechanic that would interrupt it. So to me, they’re useful. However I would like maybe an extra skill or two there, so I don’t feel like a Ruin-bot for those occasions.

An action we should really either upgrade or remove is Physick. Either ramp up its potency so it’s equivalent to a Vercure, or get rid of it and give me Expedience! I joke, but if we’re going to keep sharing with SCH, that’s what I’d pick. lol

Lastly, there’s the debate about Resurrection… I think the 4 casters will be balanced having 2 that can rez and 2 that can’t. And it does feel good to pull off that rez that saves the fight! I don’t think I’d be devastated if they removed it and gave us a damage boost, but at the same time I really don’t see the logic behind why it has to go. I think a lot of these issues stem from the unique connection of SMN and SCH through their Arcanist beginnings, and they’re trying to reconcile that with the job identities going forward. Taking a rez from a class that’s always had one just seems unnecessary. But they’ll do what they do… just give me Levi-Shiva-Ramuh and I’ll be happy.

[Ggwppino]

And while I would hope the community would be understanding, my experience has been the opposite.

Cool, but we've been understanding every single expansion since the end of HW. Now that's enough

[SeverianLyonesse]

I would be fine with glamours to implement this, but honestly SMN would get too cluttered conceptually if it were summoning 8+ summons per rotation. I like the elegance of Ifrit/Titan/Garuda and the correlation to carbuncle types (two of which were pulled from FFIX).

Personally, I think the only summon out of the remaining three which would actually add something to SMN as a job fantasy would be Shiva. Diamond Carbuncle was also in FFIX. Shiva has a Diamond Dust ability and would logically be represented by a diamond. Shiva is the only summon with as much plot relevance in ARR/HW as Ifrit/Titan/Garuda. And Shiva could easily work as a sort of "trance" form for SMN, just like Ysayle.

Imo, the perfect capstone for SMN would have been a diamond gem that could usurp the lego phase with a Shiva phase. It fits thematically with all of SMN's other motifs and doesn't have to stretch like a "Ramuh Amethyst" or "Leviathan Aquamarine" would. Ramuh and Leviathan are lame and we don't need them. Honestly I don't even like Shiva much, but so far as the FFXIV plot and and SMN's design go she would just make a lot of sense.

But absent that suggestion, just do egi glamours. I don't want to be obligated to play Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan in a locked rotation on top of what we already have, it would make the job feel even more like a rote checklist, not less.

[Moqi]

Cool, but we've been understanding every single expansion since the end of HW. Now that's enough

It's crazy to ask for understanding to SMN players who've been waiting for an actual, functioning and fun summoner since launch, but then again it's the same game where the dev literally told us to skip DT and wait for 8.0 so they've trained their white knights well.

[ZiraZ]

Get ready for Mecha Levi, Mecha Ramuh, and Mecha Shiva, based on extensive feedback!