Astrologian Card System Feedback

[ty_taurus]

I'm seeing a lot of heated debate about the new Astrologian cards, and while we still are missing some key information to fully understand how the Dawntrail system will work, I wanted to start gathering data on how players feel about the card systems, which they think is best, and what is most important to them regarding the cards. If this is something important to you, please share your feedback in the link below:

Card System Feedback Survey

After completing the survey, you can return to it at any point to change your answer. So if the tooltip info we get in the near future changes your response, you can return to adjust your answer accordingly. Additionally, you can also review the response data. All questions are optional, and there is a light question at the start of the survey that you can answer and submit if you are not interested in submitting feedback, but want to see the results anyway.

[Sussis]

One thing I would say about the survey you have created, maybe add a question about the value of versatility? As someone who has played AST since Heavensward, the original appeal of the card system (at least for me) was the versatility of it. You weren't just increasing damage, but could also help recovery in other ways (mp/tp regen, buffing everyone vs single person, etc). While RNG was definitely present, because of the wide variety of actions we had to respond to it, it was less felt. That of course could just be my opinion, but I do think your survey could benefit from asking if this versatility of card usage is appealing to players.

I know you wrote about variety, but it wasn't just the variety of effects, it was how they were able to be used.

[Kamishawe]

It would be nice if you did a second survey asking what types of effect people like in the cards.

I'd love more Utility, Reduction, GCD Haste or Movement Speed cards over a silly dps card when they can just boost Divination for Party DPS buffs instead of opening the can of worms known as Dps cards.

I personally would love getting rid of Solo cards for Group affect cards eliminating the need for tab targeting.

People saying they liked HW/STB and DT isn't very helpful, nor is asking what cards they liked best since there's been 3 different iterations of them and they all meant something different under the same names.

[Jovakim]

Thank you for doing this survey Ty!

I would have liked to see questions about whether people enjoy the busyness of the job. I honestly would rate that higher above the qualities you listed (RNG, variety, and balance/consistency).

From what we've seen, it seems like the changes to Dawntrail are taking away all that busyness I like so much about Astro.


I'd also like to point out, that unlike me, the majority seems to rate variety much higher than everything else. I assume you people must've hated every second of ShB/EW Astro then, huh?

I wouldn't mind variety as long as I have busy moments within the fight to buff multiple players' damage.
It could work if they separate the utility/healing of the Major Arcana from the damage buffs and relocate them to the Minor Arcana. Just a thought.


These Dawntrail changes are trying to please both the HW/StB fans and the RNG haters. You can't please everyone without turning the job into a mess. I'm super disappointed.

[IDontPetLalas]

Thank you for doing this survey Ty!

I would have liked to see questions about whether people enjoy the busyness of the job. I honestly would rate that higher above the qualities you listed (RNG, variety, and balance/consistency).

From what we've seen, it seems like the changes to Dawntrail are taking away all that busyness I like so much about Astro.


I'd also like to point out, that unlike me, the majority seems to rate variety much higher than everything else. I assume you people must've hated every second of ShB/EW Astro then, huh?

I wouldn't mind variety as long as I have busy moments within the fight to buff multiple players' damage.
It could work if they separate the utility/healing of the Major Arcana from the damage buffs and relocate them to the Minor Arcana. Just a thought.


These Dawntrail changes are trying to please both the HW/StB fans and the RNG haters. You can't please everyone without turning the job into a mess. I'm super disappointed.

No, personally I didn't "hate very minute of ShB/EW Astro", Shb was OK, however with the changes in EW it was time to switch to SGE or SCH. Depending upon the changes in DT, other ASTs may also switch..or not. No point in hating a job, it'll be more likely that some new healers might pick it up.

By the way, I agree with you, you can't please everyone, you're better off having a design and staying true to some core concepts rather than continually reinventing it. You can still change, but you'll really piss off your players if you keep reinventing something.

[ty_taurus]

No, personally I didn't "hate very minute of ShB/EW Astro", Shb was OK, however with the changes in EW it was time to switch to SGE or SCH. Depending upon the changes in DT, other ASTs may also switch..or not. No point in hating a job, it'll be more likely that some new healers might pick it up.

By the way, I agree with you, you can't please everyone, you're better off having a design and staying true to some core concepts rather than continually reinventing it. You can still change, but you'll really piss off your players if you keep reinventing something.

I may have been a Scholar first, Astro second during Stormblood, but I did play a lot of it. I myself did hate ShB/EW Astro because the cards being disfigured into the same thing completely defeated the entire purpose in my eyes. If all your cards do the same thing, what is the point of having a card system in the first place? Why not just gut the cards completely and replace it with 2 charges of "Bravery: Increase own or target party member's damage dealt by 6% for 15 seconds"?

The argument would be that that solution removes the card system completely, but I don't entirely agree. Because the card system was only a card system in name only. it was disguised as some sort of RNG card system when in reality, it was just the Bravery example above, but made ridiculously convoluted for the sake of trying to pretend the card system still existed when it actually didn't. Personally, I would rather have 6 different, unique cards that have different purposes and benefit jobs differently at the cost of RNG then 6 cards with almost identical tool tips held together by silly string. Doesn't mean this isn't something we can improve on or that it's better than what came before, but I definitely won't say it's worse than the last two expansions of lies and deception. But I also gave up on Astro long ago anyway, so what does my opinion really matter for?

[Aravell]

As some who mained AST in SB because SCH took an arrow to the kneecap while going into that expansion, I also had the initial impression of "Well, this card system sucks" when going into ShB because they removed the immediate impact I can have on the party by making all of them damage cards.

But after playing AST extensively in ShB and EW, I warmed up a bit to it because it does still hold the elements of fast thinking required and minor optimisations that are possible, all I really wanted from DT is the removal of the seals system and some improvement to the card system, either by reintroducing utility where possible or by allowing us to do more with the damage cards, the DT changes we saw did neither of those and it also slowed down the burst phase. While I agree that the burst phase is very hectic and might be a bit too full, I found it very fun, it reminded me of another thing I lost in this game, the hectic Wildfire window of HW gunmage. Well, now I have nothing that can give me the same experience.

That said, like I said before in another thread, what I most value from the card system is my immediate impact upon the party. It's not an included option in the survey, so I suppose RNG is the next thing that I would like to see preserved. Without RNG, they may as well just be handed to you for free since you already know what you're getting every single time (1 damage, 1 defensive, 1 curative). A lack of RNG would most definitely make AST less engaging for me, coupled with the slowing down of the burst window, the job is as good as dead to me.

SB > ShB killed the immediate impact and multitude of choices I can make.
ShB > EW killed niche personal burst alignment optimisation.
And EW > DT killed the speed and feel of AST.

But that's all just my personal thoughts and feelings on it. If anyone likes the changes they see in DT, good for them, I personally don't.

[ty_taurus]

I can't be convinced that turning every card into a 6% DPS buff is anything but miserable. It's ironic because I'd argue RNG actually died in Shadowbringers, not Dawntrail.

Seals, melee vs ranged... How big of a difference do you think it would've made to just toss every card onto a Samurai anyway? Because I strongly doubt the difference in damage would be noticeable enough to have any realistic impact in any fight anywhere. Sure, 3% is less than 6%, but consider how much less damage every ranged job except Black Mage was doing than a Samurai, and I actually wonder if a 3% damage boost on a Sam might actually compete with a 6% damage boost on a Dancer, or a Summoner even. The Seals in Shadowbringers forced some amount of interaction, but it was no longer about cards anyway.

[Aravell]

I can't be convinced that turning every card into a 6% DPS buff is anything but miserable. It's ironic because I'd argue RNG actually died in Shadowbringers, not Dawntrail.

Seals, melee vs ranged... How big of a difference do you think it would've made to just toss every card onto a Samurai anyway? Because I strongly doubt the difference in damage would be noticeable enough to have any realistic impact in any fight anywhere. Sure, 3% is less than 6%, but consider how much less damage every ranged job except Black Mage was doing than a Samurai, and I actually wonder if a 3% damage boost on a Sam might actually compete with a 6% damage boost on a Dancer, or a Summoner even. The Seals in Shadowbringers forced some amount of interaction, but it was no longer about cards anyway.

I suppose it greatly depends on how deep you want to get into optimisation. If you're really deep into optimisation, you'd want the card to match the burst profile of the job perfectly, which means what card you get and when is quite important, so the RNG is there in that case. But for most people, yes, the RNG is either 50/50 or doesn't matter (for those who just throw every card on the highest damage player).

That said, if we can't get HW/SB cards back, I'd still take the 50/50 RNG of ShB/EW over the zero RNG of DT cards.

[ty_taurus]

I suppose it greatly depends on how deep you want to get into optimisation. If you're really deep into optimisation, you'd want the card to match the burst profile of the job perfectly, which means what card you get and when is quite important, so the RNG is there in that case. But for most people, yes, the RNG is either 50/50 or doesn't matter (for those who just throw every card on the highest damage player).

That said, if we can't get HW/SB cards back, I'd still take the 50/50 RNG of ShB/EW over the zero RNG of DT cards.

I do care about optimization, but I want that optimization to actually have an ounce of value, not just to pat myself on the back. That's why I equate Addersting to Stormblood Lilies, because even when you optimize Toxikon usage, you get basically nothing out of it. The difference in your own personal damage is less than 1%. That isn't worth respecting the mechanic to me.