its not about whether SMN has Resurrection or not

[Taranok]

If you want to give players choice around what jobs they bring, then there need to be limits placed on Raise uses per fight. You also need to make Raise ubiquitous, such that you don't have to bring a specific job to access it. Again, I don't think we'll see any solutions this expansion, but I think the long term move will be to have a general 'Phoenix Down' action with a recast/use limit that removes the need for a 'Raise Job' slot.

Somewhat tangential on my part, but my favorite fights in FFXIV are Baldession Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae Savage. Both are fights that straight up remove normal ressing. While I don't think removing resses is the strictly correct choice, they could just put heavy cooldowns or raidwide cooldowns on ressing.

Honestly, giving everyone a res is the most final fantasy thing they could do, using phoenix down if nothing else. Then they just need to set a limit. E.G. 5/3/1. This can be handled in a number of ways, but the simplest is: You get 3 resses, +1 per X time. You can actually balance fights separately as well by having longer cooldowns between ressing or more opportunities to res.

Frankly, I'm tired of people even being forced into the choice of: "Well, I'd like to BLM, but RDM can res..." People should be able to play what they want, just make res a part resource and balance it differently. Plus, with such a design, the devs can even 'nerf' fights by just making resses more common as the patch goes on until it's functionally unlimited.

This is just rambly musing and I don't expect it to be done, but at the end of the day, I'd just like for ressing to be removed as a topic of discussion for balancing savage and what not. I also just want the concept of 2 melee 1 phys ranged 1 caster being meta to die in a fire. Teams should be allowed to be built however they want and ressing should never even need to come up as a topic of discussion.

[Raikai]

People really exaggerate how much raises matter outside casual content.

You know what, you actually have a point lol.

We have so many body count mechanics in High End nowadays that a RDM raising to 'save the day' isn't really that useful. Chances are that if you're rezzing 3+ people at once, that the group is going to wipe shortly after.

[Lyth]

...

BA/DRS aside, Criterion/Criterion Savage is another example of how restricting access to raise can be used to upscale the difficulty of an encounter set.

Effectively, what you'd need to do is give all players a debuff with a counter on it for a Savage level or harder instance. Every time that someone accepts a raise in the instance, it decreases by 1 on all players. When it reaches 0, it changes to the no raise icon and raises are prohibited. The debuff counter then resets after the pull ends. You could potentially design fights around no raises at all, or even have fight mechanics that deliberately add or remove a raise counter mid-fight. You could alter the difficulty of a later phase using this sort of approach.

You could keep in existing raises on the jobs that have them. At the same time, you add in a Phoenix Down General Action that has a cast time and a recast timer attached. You could also throw in a Dark Souls style Potion General Action with a set number of self-healing charges per pull. The balancing factor will be the raise cap in higher difficulty instances.

[CasterSvarog]

Personally I wouldn’t mind having SMN keep its Res, it’s really nice having it as a back up in a fight and it just feels satisfying to use. But because of how the rotation is set up 99% of the time I’ll never have Swiftcast because Slipstream takes it for itself every time.
And that’s before factoring how a lot of fight design basically will be a reset if someone dies, if there was less of that then a res from SMN/RDM would be way more useful.

[gumas]

i dont mind smn having res since they come from arcanist branch (which can go to scholar) and RDM having res since they learned all element but master of none

if it me i just make healer res (WHM, sage, scholar and AST), come with extra healing or maybe other gimmick depend on their class, basically all healer res instantly recover 50% hp when they res someone while smn and rdm res stay at 20% hp and maybe for healer it come with extra gimmick, like when WHM res they immediately come with regen buff, or sage come with hp barrier after someone got res

something like that

[Kuroka]

i dont mind smn having res since they come from arcanist branch (which can go to scholar) and RDM having res since they learned all element but master of none

if it me i just make healer res (WHM, sage, scholar and AST), come with extra healing or maybe other gimmick depend on their class, basically all healer res instantly recover 50% hp when they res someone while smn and rdm res stay at 20% hp and maybe for healer it come with extra gimmick, like when WHM res they immediately come with regen buff, or sage come with hp barrier after someone got res

something like that

Thats an neat idea! dont nerf, improve the others. Give the healers some nice trait that makes their res better.

[Ianmaru]

yup yup, improving the healers raise is a must. nerfing DPS raise is optional.

they really need to make current 'normal' healer raise only 1 full GCD cast time (2.50s) on top of the buff, so they can raise ppl back to back even faster than RDM dualcast raise.

[Kuroka]

Tbh im sad we cant have the Angel or Arch Angel spell... imagine the fun you could have with that...

[Reginald_Cain]

Buffing healer res is a great idea i like all 3 suggestion but DO NOT esuggest we nerf or remove utitity from other jobs to improve the healer players ego. I'm tired of healer suggesting other jobs lose fun and use utility. Res mage is the identity of red mage. Strippingg utility is not the answer it would just make the game worse for everyone else. There are a million things square can do to make healing better but unlike you they dont put any effort into making changes people would actually want on healer. instead they give scholar a white mage enshroud (WTF!?) and act like they didn't gut what made sch interesting in stormblood (eyeroll). I understand your frustration as a healer having a really boring dps kit and casual content making your copius amount of heal ogcds feel useless because warrior can use it party mitigation to heal the group in braindead content. but that doesn't mean warrior needs nerfs. it means they need to make dungeon more engaging for healers in some way. (give us back interesting damage tools like bane)