feedback? where?

[Supersnow845]

They did explain their design decision for healers back in shb.

https://twinfinite.net/features/ffxi...ers-interview/ TL;DR healer balance was dire and they wanted to fix it.

And of course the infamous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRpdIL7_NII&t=17438s

I am also 90% certain they talk about it in the combat pll for shb as well but I am not willing to comb through a 4 hour video to win forum arguments. I am also not willing to comb through dozens of media tour interview videos and articles for the same reason. You can fall down that rabbit hole yourself if you're so desperate for answers.

All that said, I would like for them to address it again because why not?

So the logic is the messed up SB lilys so badly that they got rightfully clowned on by the community for what was and still is the worst job mechanic the game has ever given birth to and because they can’t design a healer mechanic to give a damn that is reason to………nuke the entire role from orbit then proceed to ignore the feedback the community gives on not liking it for the next 6 years afterwards

I don’t think this is the kind of dev response people are after

[Arkdra]

So the logic is the messed up SB lilys so badly that they got rightfully clowned on by the community for what was and still is the worst job mechanic the game has ever given birth to and because they can’t design a healer mechanic to give a damn that is reason to………nuke the entire role from orbit then proceed to ignore the feedback the community gives on not liking it for the next 6 years afterwards

I don’t think this is the kind of dev response people are after

How you feel about the response is up to you! But it's there~

[Jojoya]

We literally, like 2 or 3 weeks ago, just had the benchmark come out. It lead to tons and tons of feedback being posted on this forum about it. The devs responded to that feedback fairly quickly and have shown some fixed examples between now and then and we are getting a fresh, updated benchmark next week. The claim they don't read feedback is specious.

You're going to get people debating whether the feedback from the NA/EU players was heard, or if they were only listening to the JP players who had the same complaints.

We've had past evidence that the NA/EU feedback isn't getting to them. The incident that immediately comes to mind is YoshiP referring to players flocking to a single data center for group content in each region as a JP only problem during a live broadcast several months back. Yet that had been the hot topic here in the EN forums with respect to Aether and Chaos for close to 2 months before the broadcast.

So are the developers listening to at least the JP player feedback? Definitely. But it seems unlikely they're paying much attention to feedback from the players outside of JP.

I'll be honest. It's hard to blame them if they aren't. Most of the EN discussions going on aren't really constructive, whether it's here, reddit, or the various social media platforms. The majority of their time trying to sort through what is said would be wasted because we seem to be incapable of doing the one simple thing they've asked us to do - keep all feedback on a single topic in a single thread and don't derail it.

[Niroken]

I'll be honest. It's blame them if they aren't. Most of the EN discussions going on aren't really constructive, whether it's here, reddit, or the various social media platforms. The majority of their time trying to sort through what is said would be wasted because we seem to be incapable of doing the one simple thing they've asked us to do - keep all feedback on a single topic in a single thread and don't derail it.

And that's why I play DPS instead of healer rather then throw my voice into the void. It would exacerbate the issue with queues, if enough people do it then they have to look into the why. Even if no one else swaps over, I'm still having more fun on a role that does what it's designed to do in any content. I also have a disgusting amount of options to chose from.

[ZiraZ]

I suppose its harder to ignore 40 pages of feedback made in a single day related to graphical changes than 2 pages of job changes posted in half a week~
We really do be playing a 1 button coom gooning erp game

[Arkdra]

According to some rando on reddit the JP players think they aren't being listened to and it's the dang gaijins getting all the attention.

I think the real answer is they have their priorities and they are going to disregard feedback that goes against them or at best, implement compromise answers. For example, healers been asking for more dps buttons forever, and they got them! Seemingly tied to 2 minute abilities which kinda misses the forest for the trees imo. But if their priority is keeping jobs simple for ease of use by new players then it's a reasonable compromise to come to. It's not actually going to appease the complainers (or me, but my opinion doesn't really matter since nothing outside of adding WHO battlepriest could get me to main healer), but bringing back more intense dps rotations was never in the cards if their top priority is roping in new players and not wanting them to get discouraged.

[Jojoya]

What is the point of giving feedback then?

Lets assume they have a vision (because what they said in EW about not knowing what to add to Sch suggest the opposite). If they only impose their vision and only take feedback that is in line with that vision, What is there to stop a flawed vision to ruin the game?

If what you say is true then the devs have forgotten about what to do to avoid another disaster like 1.0:



Because by forcing their vision despite the multiple criticism and proof behind that they are not doing (1) (2) and (3)

1 - Different players want different things. There is no single vision consensus. SE can't make every player happy in a single game. Their best course of action is to make the game they feel that they are best at making. If there are players not happy with that best, then perhaps it's better that those players move to "Canada" if Canada is offering what they want.

2 - Don't ignore the clarity and vision parts of that statement. Being willing to listen to players doesn't mean their vision will be changed in accordance with what some of those players want. And there's always going to be some issues with clarity when you're dealing with players speaking multiple languages. How clear the vision comes across is going to depend a lot on the accuracy of the interpreters used.

3 - Adapting applies to players just as much as it does to the developers. Again, not all players want the same things out of the game. We need to be willing to compromise on what gets delivered knowing that they're trying to make a game that appeals to more than just our individual selves.

You know where I think they're really getting it wrong? With #4. What developers are playing on the NA and EU realms to understand what things are like here? Let's not forget that their stance on RMT ad spam was "it's not a problem" until YoshiP decided to do one of his walks on a NA realm and got blasted with RMT spam in chat. Suddenly, it became a problem. Let's not forget that YoshiP said that data center travel has only caused problems for the JP data centers even though NA players were also complaining about it long before he made that statement. To the best of my knowledge, he still hasn't acknowledged that it's a problem outside of JP.

The point of feedback is for them to see what is leaving players most unhappy and trying to find ways to address it while staying true to their vision. Because the game will always be their vision. You're going to get a crap game that pleases no one in the end if the developers aren't passionate about what they're making and doing what they feel they do best.

For example, healers been asking for more dps buttons forever, and they got them!

Except not all healers have been asking for more DPS buttons. Some of us have been asking for more reasons to heal. If I wanted to do more DPS, I'd be maining DPS in the first place.

Therein lies half the problem. We're not all looking for the same things and yet some will jump to conclusions that because a few players asked for something, everyone was asking for that something. That's almost never the case.

So who do the developers listen to? In the case of healers, they listen to those who want healers to be DPS because they've outright admitted that healing isn't a strength of their job design team. So we're getting more DPS tools while healing itself continues to be ignored.

For those of us who want a good healing experience, not DPS, we're better off going to (or back to) WoW because healing design is mainly ignored in this game in favor of DPS design. At least in WoW you feel valued as a healer and not as Green DPS there solely to resurrect players who can't figure out how to do a mechanic.

That doesn't do this game much good. The matchmaking systems are still designed around the Trinity even if the Trinity isn't strictly needed anymore. How are queues going to get filled when there are very few left willing to queue as healers?

[Maltothoris]

Except not all healers have been asking for more DPS buttons. Some of us have been asking for more reasons to heal. If I wanted to do more DPS, I'd be maining DPS in the first place.

But then you have issues with say them "increasing the healing requirements" as what happened with Abyssos. So they can't really increase healing without leading to people leaving the role. Also enemies are getting more hp oer expansion and if healers don't get more dps stuff, it will be a slog. But if you increase only the single target nuke potency, you're just giving more weight to the nuke on a gcd basis.

reversing the removal of Energy Drain on Scholar

Well the thing they tried to get rid of it twice both in Stb and Shb.

[Supersnow845]

Except not all healers have been asking for more DPS buttons. Some of us have been asking for more reasons to heal. If I wanted to do more DPS, I'd be maining DPS in the first place.

Therein lies half the problem. We're not all looking for the same things and yet some will jump to conclusions that because a few players asked for something, everyone was asking for that something. That's almost never the case.

So who do the developers listen to? In the case of healers, they listen to those who want healers to be DPS because they've outright admitted that healing isn't a strength of their job design team. So we're getting more DPS tools while healing itself continues to be ignored.

For those of us who want a good healing experience, not DPS, we're better off going to (or back to) WoW because healing design is mainly ignored in this game in favor of DPS design. At least in WoW you feel valued as a healer and not as Green DPS there solely to resurrect players who can't figure out how to do a mechanic.

That doesn't do this game much good. The matchmaking systems are still designed around the Trinity even if the Trinity isn't strictly needed anymore. How are queues going to get filled when there are very few left willing to queue as healers?

Doesn’t this point pretty much agree with the concept they aren’t listening to healer feedback

Let’s take you as a representation of the “I want to heal more” group and have less focus on DPS, you aren’t getting what you want because everything is designed around spending GCD’s on attacks and healing with oGCD’s, let’s take me as a group that wants more complex DPS options (not mutually exclusive btw), I’m not getting what I want because my damage options are still 111111111111

Who is this job design actually benefitting, it’s not even a compromise because both sides hate it rather than “well it’s better than giving everything to the other side”

Then if they ever give vague notions they are following feedback they seem to mention feeling happy with the current position of them……..based on what, who wants the current healer design

[OliviaLugria]

In regards to healer feedback... I feel the devs don't put much stock in it because there's still plenty of healers.

As terrible as I think the design is, people still play them, the numbers look fine, so they don't change anything.