Are we going to keep pretending that PC and console players are the same?

[Larirawiel]

Square enix not using anti-cheat detection on the client side of the game is one of the worst possible decisions they have ever made.

It is not necessarily a bad decision. Every decision they make has its own consequences. I guess, they decided, that an anti cheat mechanism is not worth the hassle, it could produce. Most anti cheat mechanisms do not work because you can easily bypass them. Only root kit like anti cheats are effective. But a root kit is a huge security hole for the whole system and a source for instability.


Cheers

[Azureskies01]

It is not necessarily a bad decision. Every decision they make has its own consequences. I guess, they decided, that an anti cheat mechanism is not worth the hassle, it could produce. Most anti cheat mechanisms do not work because you can easily bypass them. Only root kit like anti cheats are effective. But a root kit is a huge security hole for the whole system and a source for instability.


Cheers

First off no, there are effective anti cheat systems that don't get kernel level access (VaC) however they are the easiest to be effective because of that fact.

It is all about implementation, Elden Ring uses EAC yet you can just mod it out of the game where as fornite uses it as well and ....yeah try modding it out of that game.

The fact of the matter is people are going to cheat in any game that has any amount of competitiveness to it. People even have been found to be cheating in Helldivers 2 for cryin out loud. A strictly PvE game but seeing as how it is slightly competitive people do it. The question then becomes do the players and the devs want to deal with the cheaters or let them run the game. There is no middle ground. Ults now requiring AM/cact, ranked CC being pointless because of the pluggins and yes even people doing stupid crap like mare all detract from the game in one way or another. They all should get banned for going against ToS. To say otherwise makes you suspect as ****.

It isn't the fault of SE as to why people cheat, cheaters will want to in any game they play. I wish the community was as good as people say it is but you would have to be blind to the state of the game for the last 2 years to agree with them. Something must be done and as I said before it should have been done years ago, that is the one fault you can put on SE.

[Larirawiel]

First off no, there are effective anti cheat systems that don't get kernel level access (VaC) however they are the easiest to be effective because of that fact.

No, it's not how Windows or other OS work. If you start a cheat software with Administrator privileges then this software can do literary everything. Because the Administrator account has very extensive privileges. And this is the reason why all the FF14 mods and parsers need a special launcher, which has to be started with Administrator privileges. And this is also the reason why i do not use them because those software is not trustworthy enough for me.

If your goal is to prevent manipulation with Administrator privileges then your anti cheat software needs privileges, which are above the Administrator account. And the only way to do this, is a ring 0 kernel driver. And this is the reason why so many anti cheat mechanisms install those drivers. Even Riot Games switched to this kind of anti cheat software. Because other mechanisms are not reliable enough.

But this kind of anti cheat software comes with a price. Kernel drivers have to be written carefully. Because if a ring 0 driver crashes then it will very likely tear down the whole OS. And ring 0 kernel anti cheat software is a proven security risk.

And i can imagine, that this price is too high for SQEX. And they take cheats and mods into account.



Cheers

[Azureskies01]

No, it's not how Windows or other OS work. If you start a cheat software with Administrator privileges then this software can do literary everything. Because the Administrator account has very extensive privileges. And this is the reason why all the FF14 mods and parsers need a special launcher, which has to be started with Administrator privileges. And this is also the reason why i do not use them because those software is not trustworthy enough for me.

If your goal is to prevent manipulation with Administrator privileges then your anti cheat software needs privileges, which are above the Administrator account. And the only way to do this, is a ring 0 kernel driver. And this is the reason why so many anti cheat mechanisms install those drivers. Even Riot Games switched to this kind of anti cheat software. Because other mechanisms are not reliable enough.

But this kind of anti cheat software comes with a price. Kernel drivers have to be written carefully. Because if a ring 0 driver crashes then it will very likely tear down the whole OS. And ring 0 kernel anti cheat software is a proven security risk.

And i can imagine, that this price is too high for SQEX. And they take cheats and mods into account.



Cheers

Tell me you have zero idea about how or why anti cheat programs work without telling me you have zero idea about how or why they work.

At the end of the day the only people against having one in xiv are people that take advantage of the fact there is none, aka cheaters. Almost every other online (competitive) game requires one, so xiv is the odd program out here.

[Racen]

I just realized this must be someone who is or used to be in Azure Infinitum which completely invalidates all of their arguments.

[Azureskies01]

I just realized this must be someone who is or used to be in Azure Infinitum which completely invalidates all of their arguments.

For almost all of my time playing the game I've had my own FC that is just me in it. Should that fact limit my ability to comment about the state of the game? Ohh no but me being in a huge FC for all of about a week does... right.

Also what kind of stalker knows exactly what FC someone has been in years ago? That is just some weird stranger danger ****

[LianaThorne]

I just realized this must be someone who is or used to be in Azure Infinitum which completely invalidates all of their arguments.

Not eyebrow raising at all that you haven't posted since 2019 and the first two posts you've made upon coming back are attacking/stalking people. Totally normal.

/s
--------
Gonna guess someone found the keys to an alt account.

[Saraide]

Cactbot is not required for doing ultimates. AM is standard for PF for specific mechanics because those mechanics are not well done and massively favor statics over PF. AM also doesnt exclude console players at all.

Cheating in pvp sucks but pvp is not important enough in this game for this to matter. Literally no one cared about that one competitive CC event. It's there because it's an MMO tradition. I also predict that pvp cheating is the one aspect of cheating that you'll have the hardest time to get rid off. Even the kernel level anti cheats are struggling with keeping up. You will probably stop viera hats though. And all the things that got implemented into the game because third party tools gave unambigious proof of certain features being highly requested. Like buff timers.

[Azureskies01]

Every single person that uses a third party program that interfaces with either the RAM (dalamud) or watches packets (act) is cheating. There is no gray area for that and you making a long post trying to explain it away is fine but ultimately pointless.

Also you say that so many people cheat that they wouldn't dare put an anti cheat in the game and in the same post you say that most people don't cheat....


**** I fell for the bait didn't I?.....ffs

[ForteNightshade]

Every single person that uses a third party program that interfaces with either the RAM (dalamud) or watches packets (act) is cheating. There is no gray area for that and you making a long post trying to explain it away is fine but ultimately pointless.

Also you say that so many people cheat that they wouldn't dare put an anti cheat in the game and in the same post you say that most people don't cheat....


**** I fell for the bait didn't I?.....ffs

You can deny it all you want but there is a grey area due to SE not taking a draconian stance with their ToS. Trying to argue hair and body mods are remotely comparable to Cactbot is laughable.

Furthermore, you specifically asked why SE would continue developing hard content when AM exists. That's a wholly different argument than "every plugin ever is ChEaTiNG OMG!!!!!" One actually provides a gameplay advantage whereas the other makes your character have bigger boobs. I mean... I guess that's some kind of advantage

It's not bait to acknowledge that installing DRM will have a heavily negative impact due to how prevalent third party has become. You can lump them altogether if you fancy, that doesn't change anything i said above.

What does that have to do with the post you responded to? Yoshi P has directly stated there is no point in difficult content if people are just going to cheat. Sorry your adoring game has contradictory policies.

Because like I said above, the amount of people actually using those specific plugins isn't significant compared to everyone else doing the content without them. Both you and Azure are mischaracterizing Yoshida's comment. His response about not making difficult content was towards a zoom hack not hair mods.