Combat system is beyond saving.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Opening this post with "Heavensward was the peak of this game" is beyond parody

[ty_taurus]

Opening this post with "Heavensward was the peak of this game" is beyond parody

"Peak job design" is what they're referring to. Perhaps not "peak glamour" or "peak content variety" or anything like that. It's moreso that many of the other qualities of FFXIV fail to satisfy a lot of people if the job design is trash.

[KisaiTenshi]

It’s so bizarre to me that a game that lets you change jobs whenever you want continues to eradicate play styles in the effort to make all jobs the same.

Because they care more about the choreography. A fight that is 100% random, is not fun. A fight that is 100% predictable, you can have NPC players do everything. In order for the game to be balanced for all jobs, all jobs have to be essentially the same. The NPC players can't be "perfect" at their jobs, positionals, otherwise the human player has nothing to do (and in many cases if you enter the dungeon with NPC players as a healer, you can just do nothing at trash mobs.) I'm sure if you enter as a DPS, you can just nope out of every fight, and it'll just take longer.

A fight has to have some level of random element to it so that bots and players can't just program their macro keyboard to do the fight. So you accomplish this with how the enemies choose targets and lose enmity from the tank. You accomplish this by having the damage range being fairly wide, and GCD variables' being different on all jobs. But they're not different enough. A DPS rotation should not just be "press the highlighted buttons in order", a healer shouldn't just need to hit "party heal" every 3 seconds to keep the party alive.

I don't know how I'd want to see healer's fixed, but I'd want to see it fixed in a way so that they aren't so samey. White Mage is Cure+Regen, So why is Astrologian also that? The original HW version was better in that you could have either regen or shields (And thus easier to decide how work with the other healer in 8-player content.) The jobs should ultimately be capable of putting out the "same level of damage over time" if the highlighted buttons are pressed, but otherwise how oGCD's should be used situationally rather than trying to exhaust all oGCD's immediately. At least tanks and healers have situational reasons to use their oGCD's. DPS however get hyperfocused on some specific rotation meta they found on the internet, and thus the developers have to constantly are required to break the meta's otherwise players will only ever pick and use the DPS that does the most damage. Hence no DPS can be "better" than another.

In contrast to how it would make the most sense. All melee DPS have instant cast's. You'd think that "faster" DPS should have faster recast times with less damage. I'm pretty sure Square-Enix devs just have a calculator of DPS-over-time given a perfect (highlighted) combo and adjusts everything so that the overall damage is the same between all melee DPS, all Ranged DPS, and likewise Tank and Healer's, so that no job is actually "better" when played perfectly.

[Reimmi]

Yeah, back when accuracy was around we had such deep stat choices for our gear. Let's not forget that tanks had to meld more accuracy than others and mages the least amount.

honestly i'd prefer that to crit and crit 2 we have now
stats are so pointless they might as well just make 2 stats, power and health

[Graveyardprincess]

Tbh It could be saved just the community and players don't want combat to be saved... People would rather it be do it and be done with it instend of idk PLAYING THE GAME lol I'm not trying to be offensive but ... why are you playing a game if you dont want challanges to grow over and improve its not suppose to be easy...

Combat can only be solved when se and community actrually says: NO Its not okay to preform this badly at level 100, and instead encourage people to challenge themselves and improve, If someone can't swim you throw their .... into the ocean/river or lake and let them figure it out you either sink or swim there is no inbetween..


I'm sorry but we players have been excusing things that are just common sense at that level bracket that there is 0 excuse to not know by that point.


and the solution is easy just stop making every job easy, if you want a easy caster well play summoner not saying everyone in it wants easy but its okay to have 1-2 jobs that are easy within the job role.

I think what they honestly should do is make paladin easy to play warrior more complex but med to play and drk/gnb extremely diffuclt to play, same goes for every other job type.

Players tend to always say : making things hard doesnt mean fun, but in a most cases in gaming that is completely incorrect things being hard does equal more fun 78% of the time, Unless farming gathering are something along the levels of that or something like the sims are creative type games it being easy is fine in fact I love those types of things, island sancury type stuff is where its okay for it to be dumb down chill game play, but combat should never be easy period, if you are above level 56 you should know everh mecha in the game, how they function etc (in 80% of the cases of fights) You should know to use tank stance after level 30 sorry but that is being gentle because JOB QUEST AND NOVICE HALL TEACHS THIS STUFF, yet we excuse people for not following things that are a. taught to them by the job quest and b. taught again in novice hall and c. read the skills ...


Im sorry but i blame the players and community for how booring combat is...

sometimes just sometimes being a little rough and "mean" is the nicest thing you can do for someone that is something people dont accept

[ty_taurus]

Difficulty does not mean "bad," and easy does not mean "good." The opposite is also true. Whether something is challenging or easy does not directly correlate with how fun something is because what makes a game entertaining is built on a multitude of other factors. Animal Crossing is a widely successful and fun game, and it's also very easy and relaxing. A piece of that equation, though, is also subjective. Different people find different things fun, and that's why older job design was well-liked and successful.

Not all FFXIV content contains a lot of difficulty. Most of it requires very little from the player, and that can make for a very dull and monotonous experience for people who have a higher understanding of the game's mechanics and have pursued harder forms of content. But what allowed that content to still be enjoyable before was jobs having more ways to push your performance and master the job. And what was beautiful about that was that added complexity was optional. The game did not demand you play your role to perfection, or even close to it. If pushing your performance on a job wasn't interesting to you, you weren't required to do it. You could still approach your job at a surface level and get through anything the game will throw at you. By removing that added complexity, all that's been done is that optional difficulty that allowed some people to enjoy all content to some level regardless of difficulty to be alienated from the majority of FFXIV's content.

[xivYuiM]

Tbh It could be saved just the community and players don't want combat to be saved... People would rather it be do it and be done with it instend of idk PLAYING THE GAME lol I'm not trying to be offensive but ... why are you playing a game if you dont want challanges to grow over and improve its not suppose to be easy...

Combat can only be solved when se and community actrually says: NO Its not okay to preform this badly at level 100, and instead encourage people to challenge themselves and improve, If someone can't swim you throw their .... into the ocean/river or lake and let them figure it out you either sink or swim there is no inbetween..

I'm sorry but we players have been excusing things that are just common sense at that level bracket that there is 0 excuse to not know by that point.

sometimes just sometimes being a little rough and "mean" is the nicest thing you can do for someone that is something people dont accept

Unfortunately this is something you see everywhere in life nowadays. In the case of this game specifically though, I would put a lot of the blame on square for forcing people to accept that type of behavior by forcing the level of "toxic positivity" that this game is known for. If I typed half of the messages that I sent during heavensward dungeons I would be permabanned in a heartbeat today. Any chat messages that are even remotely critical make me nervous I am going to get banned after I got sent to GM jail in ShB for telling my black mage to use AOE attacks during a roulette. They are so rabid about banning people that I have gone out of my way to only communicate using auto-translate since the day I was jailed. If SE and the game mods allowed people to say what they want I have a feeling the community (and the game) as a whole would look a lot different than it does now.

Also, you have the type of people who will pull out the argument "What is common sense to you might be hard for someone else to understand!! Stop being mean!!!" Listen, most people don't truly expect everyone they meet to be a master of all jobs all the time. The type of people who cried about harassment when it was still (sort of) allowed are people who got flamed for doing things like not using CDs/stance as a tank, completely refusing to AoE, totally ignoring combos and doing like 70% less DPS than the other DPS players, etc. IMO people who play like that DESERVE to be flamed especially if they have had someone correct them and they just actively choose to ignore it. If it wouldn't get me banned I would have bullied these people until they either shape up or quit playing because they truly ruined the experience for everyone else. Instead we have a community that is overflowing with people who want to just stare at pretty lights while they drool on their keyboard and anyone who has a problem with it can't voice their opinion without fear of being banned and losing all of their progress.

[Valence]

The edge is seeping

[IDontPetLalas]

Unfortunately this is something you see everywhere in life nowadays. In the case of this game specifically though, I would put a lot of the blame on square for forcing people to accept that type of behavior by forcing the level of "toxic positivity" that this game is known for. If I typed half of the messages that I sent during heavensward dungeons I would be permabanned in a heartbeat today. Any chat messages that are even remotely critical make me nervous I am going to get banned after I got sent to GM jail in ShB for telling my black mage to use AOE attacks during a roulette. They are so rabid about banning people that I have gone out of my way to only communicate using auto-translate since the day I was jailed. If SE and the game mods allowed people to say what they want I have a feeling the community (and the game) as a whole would look a lot different than it does now.

Also, you have the type of people who will pull out the argument "What is common sense to you might be hard for someone else to understand!! Stop being mean!!!" Listen, most people don't truly expect everyone they met to be a master of all jobs all the time. The type of people who cried about harassment when it was still (sort of) allowed are people who got flamed for doing things like not using CDs/stance as a tank, completely refusing to AoE, totally ignoring combos and doing like 70% less DPS than the other DPS players, etc. IMO people who play like that DESERVE to be flamed especially if they have had someone correct them and they just actively choose to ignore it. If it wouldn't get me banned I would have bullied these people until they either shape up or quit playing because they truly ruined the experience for everyone else. Instead we have a community that is overflowing with people who want to just stare at pretty lights while they drool on their keyboard and anyone who has a problem with it can't voice their opinion without fear of being banned and losing all of their progress.

You don't need to "flame" someone. if you speak to someone , and there isn't a communication issue (translation, could also be potentially age)- and that person doesn't modify- maybe they aren't using tank stance, there are other cases- you can kick them. If you actually want to help people it doesn't take very long to say "Sorry, but if you don't use tank stance we can't continue".

There's no need to bully people. If it happens enough then they'll learn (hopefully) , change jobs or quit.

[Kathryn]

Proc enjoyers unite. We want full proc based jobs again. Only BRD still satisfies that criteria to this day.

It's seriously an endangered playstyle in this day and age in XIV. Both added jobs for EW? No procs. Both new added jobs for DT? Sill no procs.

One added job for ShB, procs (DNC), but one also removed them (MCH), and the latter unlike DNC was a full proc job, so it's still a net negative.

Yas please, I loved Frost mage in WoW as it was proc heaven, Builder spender classes just feel 1 dimensional.