Combat system is beyond saving.

[Gokki]

I must say I disagree. FFXIV never focused on making complex damage rotations - in order to load that complexity on the content.

If the rotations were difficult then the fights themselves can't be complex, reducing the fun aspect of them.

The combat system is deceptively complex and demands perfect execution and optimization in order to compensate for mistakes that happen elsewhere, with harder fights having less room for that.

Damage optimization while doing raid mechanics and coordinating with party is where the challenge is, not the individual aspect of your character.

Bomb Logic, not Sword Logic.

[Supersnow845]

I must say I disagree. FFXIV never focused on making complex damage rotations - in order to load that complexity on the content.

If the rotations were difficult then the fights themselves can't be complex, reducing the fun aspect of them.

The combat system is deceptively complex and demands perfect execution and optimization in order to compensate for mistakes that happen elsewhere, with harder fights having less room for that.

Damage optimization while doing raid mechanics and coordinating with party is where the challenge is, not the individual aspect of your character.

Bomb Logic, not Sword Logic.

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this.

It also reduces the solution down to a single way to solve it. Think coils, their mechanics are way more simple but they have 10,000 ways to solve them in order to change your optimisation flow. Do you overshield allagen field and then release more towers quicker to get an easier next phase, do you bane tech the eggs which skips the enrage but makes juggling FOF in the corner harder, do you solve leafstorm with an LB3 or do the dance, who baits the renalds

With super chain is 1 solution and if you get it wrong we all blow up. That raid design gets so stale because your optimisation is already done by a spreadsheet you just have to execute it

[SargeTheSeagull]

Worse than it’s ever been? Oh absolutely. Beyond saving? Not remotely.
WoW was “beyond saving” two years ago. Now it’s better than it’s ever been. Once SE starts hemorrhaging players they’ll get their act together. Yoshi P’s recent comments about 8.0 (though they could be pure PR talk) at least hint that they’re aware that people don’t like 14’s combat anymore and that it may have already started hurting the bottom line.

[Jeeqbit]

Wasn't Heavensward considered the worst expansion regarding job balance and raiding? Didn't that expansion almost annihilated the whole raiding community? I am not sure if I'm following you.

I don't think balance is their point. I think the point is the depth and how a new player would be lightyears away in skill from someone who was raiding at a high level. Compare that to how a new player Warrior is likely only marginally different from someone playing at a high level now.

But part of that depth was just jank, physical vs magic mit, lack of intuitively designed systems, needing to level other jobs (cross-class), and a giant knowledge gap where the game didn't teach certain basic things. They did retroactively start teaching enmity and enmity combos though, eventually.

[Aravell]

If the rotations were difficult then the fights themselves can't be complex, reducing the fun aspect of them.

The combat system is deceptively complex and demands perfect execution and optimization in order to compensate for mistakes that happen elsewhere, with harder fights having less room for that.

Damage optimization while doing raid mechanics and coordinating with party is where the challenge is, not the individual aspect of your character.

People always claim that complex jobs can't exist with complex fights, but why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't there be a good balance between the 2?

If you take complex fights to the logical conclusion, you get what we have now. Fights with debuff overload that requires you to parse all that information within 5 seconds or less and execute it or your entire team blows up. Is that fun? Depends on the person, but I find that kind of design highly frustrating, it's also a bigger wall for less experienced players than harder jobs were.

Look at Golbez EX, people have been likening him to a savage fight. Is it because he does a ton of damage? No. Is it because his mechanics are fast? No. Is it because you have to do his mechanics in very specific ways or your entire team blows up? Yes, that's exactly it.

Balancing fight and job complexity would stop this trickle down effect that's gating more casual players out of farming extremes due to pure frustration. You could carry a bad player back in HW/SB, you cannot carry a bad player in EW design because that player not understanding the mechanic will blow all of your up with no hope of recovery.

Edit: Come to think of it, even stack markers have been Endwalkerised, you can see it clearly in Another Mount Rokkon. First boss has a regular stack marker, do set damage and split among players if more than one. Second and third boss have a different stack marker, if one person, it does a million damage, if 2 people, it does set damage. Another case of "do mechanic this way or die", can't even choose to hypermitigate stack markers anymore.

[Chrisie]

I can't understand people's logic who think that these days' jobs are engaging in gameplay. DPS is limited into 2 min burst window, healers... dotglareglareglare dotbroilbroilbroil dotdosisdosisdosis dotmaleficmaleficmalefic... WOW!!!!!! So fun. Tanks don't even need healers in this expansion, and their rotation is also just another burst window but a bit more boring.

I can't believe people think that this combat is okay. You can't push your job to the limits which will reward you in a better result. You can literally do a dungeon while paying only 40% of your attention to it, and your other 60% is on Youtube/Netflix. You need to spam only few buttons anyway.

These days I barely can make myself to do roulettes. Roulettes are just another thing they need to change. I literally puke every time I que for Expert roulette or Alliance roulette. Same. damn. dungeon/raid. Every time. I've been getting ARR raids every single day for 2 months. Dungeons are not dangerous anymore either. The mobs burn down fast. The boss burns down even faster no matter which raid/trial you go into. And boring-in-combat jobs make it even worse.

[Supersnow845]

I regularly do roulettes with my friend over voice call. Occasionally he asks a question neither of us know

I can straight up look away from my screen to look up the answer continuing to just press 1111111 and know that everything will be fine and I’m still doing max DPS because he doesn’t need me anyway and even if I get hit by an AOE it barely does 30% of my HP on a healer

I love being able to max my potential in some of the games most common content not even looking at the screen

[Rekh]

Naoki Yoshida had dinner with Masahiro Sakurai and Harada sometime last month or so.

After watching the latest video, as of this posting, that Sakurai left in his own youtube channel, I hope if they talked about work at all that Sakurai told him a thing or two about balance x fun, because the video basically explains some of the wrongdoing in XIV's homogenization.

Interesting! I really hope those 2 have an influence on yoship. This thing where he has to make sure all jobs can clear ultimates and/or savage raids has got to end! It's making the entire game unfun for both casuals and "raiders." Make the game fun for casuals first, then worry about "raid" balance second. If this means less ultimate raids, then boohoo oh well.

[TBerry]

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this.

It also reduces the solution down to a single way to solve it. Think coils, their mechanics are way more simple but they have 10,000 ways to solve them in order to change your optimisation flow. Do you overshield allagen field and then release more towers quicker to get an easier next phase, do you bane tech the eggs which skips the enrage but makes juggling FOF in the corner harder, do you solve leafstorm with an LB3 or do the dance, who baits the renalds

With super chain is 1 solution and if you get it wrong we all blow up. That raid design gets so stale because your optimisation is already done by a spreadsheet you just have to execute it

Why does eberything always have tio be a competition?

[Valence]

I must say I disagree. FFXIV never focused on making complex damage rotations - in order to load that complexity on the content.

If the rotations were difficult then the fights themselves can't be complex, reducing the fun aspect of them.

The combat system is deceptively complex and demands perfect execution and optimization in order to compensate for mistakes that happen elsewhere, with harder fights having less room for that.

Damage optimization while doing raid mechanics and coordinating with party is where the challenge is, not the individual aspect of your character.

Bomb Logic, not Sword Logic.

Reducing the fun aspect for you maybe. I don't care about encounter mechanics that ask me to play DDR on repeat and pass body checks that I can't even help others through with my skills. I care however for intricate and fulfilling job designs, and the game currently fails spectacularly at this. Everything is extremely basic.

Note that I'm using intricate on purpose, not complex, because complexity for the sake of it is just intellectual wankery.