Combat system is beyond saving.

[xivYuiM]

Heavensward was the peak of this game as far as the combat system goes and it has gotten worse with every patch since 4.0 to the point that now it feels like they actually WANT people to quit.

Before anyone cries about it, yes, other aspects of the game have improved immensely like world travel, inventory management, glam dresser, abilities reset after wipes, etc.

I don’t understand what they claim the issue was with the combat back then. It was NEAR PERFECT. The skill floor was low enough that if someone had enough brain power to type in their login credentials without help then surely they were able to clear all of the MSQ content, dungeons, or normal difficulty raids without much issue. The skill ceiling was high enough that if you really wanted to push your job to the limits it made doing dungeons at the time more engaging than today’s savage raids. It was brilliant. Not only the best MMO combat I have ever experienced but maybe even one of the best online games EVER MADE.

Everyone has been (rightfully) crying about how dumb the jobs themselves are but even on a core mechanical level the system that was once accessible, in-depth, and satisfying to master has become so bare-bones it is actually embarrassing. It is not even the same game. It really is sad and honestly I cannot believe that the same team that created HW has had any input on how the game has ended up.


Half of the playerbase hasn’t even experienced the actual final fantasy XIV combat system that had things like:

• Aggro management
• Cleric stance and Multiple tank stances (3.x WAR was the best job in the history of this game)
• TP (sprint not draining it was a good change)
• Dungeon packs actually being a threat
• Multiple viable builds for all jobs
• Power level being driven by skill rather than solely depending on your gear ilvl

The list goes on.

Aggro management ALONE made this game fundamentally different. It was a deceptively in-depth mechanic that, while being immensely satisfying to master as a tank, required interaction from ALL THREE ROLES and really added a sense of teamwork to every encounter and was the SOLE REASON TO PLAY TANKS!!! Now tanks are just 123 drones that act as a (somehow) even less engaging melee DPS.

A change like that happening in any other franchise would instantly kill it. Imagine if a franchise like counter-strike removed grenades in the name of making it “more accessible” because high level players take better advantage of them and you had half of the playerbase saying “it’s the same game!!! Stop being elitist!!!!” I understand that a competitive FPS and an MMO are not the same but I think the comparison is very appropriate.

I have been on maximum cope hoping that each expansion will make the game fun again and it’s my fault for staying subbed but at this point I think anything short of a complete overhaul in 8.0 there is no chance for another 10 years of this game existing.

[xivYuiM]

I don't expect to generate a ton of discussion with this post, it is 100% just to vent about frustrations after seeing the live letter and them bothering to say they made the game even more dull "in accordance with feedback" is making me feel like they are trying to gaslight me into thinking they didn't already make the best MMO ever made and didn't spend the last 7 years making it worse with every update.

[Rekh]

It is beyond saving, they make too much money now to listen. They're not in that "gotta save the FF franchise" situation they were in back in ARR and HW. An online rpg will come around and steal their thunder eventually though, just a matter of time.

[Mikey_R]

Aggro management ALONE made this game fundamentally different. It was a deceptively in-depth mechanic that, while being immensely satisfying to master as a tank, required interaction from ALL THREE ROLES and really added a sense of teamwork to every encounter and was the SOLE REASON TO PLAY TANKS!!! Now tanks are just 123 drones that act as a (somehow) even less engaging melee DPS.

If generate large amounts of enmity at the start of a fight then swap to DPS stance for the rest of the fight constitutes as a 'deceptively in-depth mechanic', then I don't know what to say.

[xivYuiM]

If generate large amounts of enmity at the start of a fight then swap to DPS stance for the rest of the fight constitutes as a 'deceptively in-depth mechanic', then I don't know what to say.

I was more referring to the limits you could push in non-raid content (like dungeons) where there was endless fun to be had in trying to maximize the damage you could deal while also staying just on the edge of losing aggro or dying because you lost the damage reduction from tank stance. If all you wanted to do was hold aggro and not worry about anything else you could just turn on stance and walk forward while you spammed flash and used DCDs which is basically how every tank has been forced to play for many years now. There is no depth, no reward, no excitement. The dungeons mobs can't kill you, you can't lose aggro, and everyone does pretty much the exact same DPS assuming you have the same gear on while we mash the same 3 abilities without thinking for 17 minutes in a dungeon.

[Enjuden]

I was more referring to the limits you could push in non-raid content (like dungeons) where there was endless fun to be had in trying to maximize the damage you could deal while also staying just on the edge of losing aggro or dying because you lost the damage reduction from tank stance. If all you wanted to do was hold aggro and not worry about anything else you could just turn on stance and walk forward while you spammed flash and used DCDs which is basically how every tank has been forced to play for many years now. There is no depth, no reward, no excitement. The dungeons mobs can't kill you, you can't lose aggro, and everyone does pretty much the exact same DPS assuming you have the same gear on while we mash the same 3 abilities without thinking for 17 minutes in a dungeon.

People really have this strange idea that Heavensward magically was able to kill you in non-raid content when it was exactly the same every expansion. Only one dungeon did that and it was release Vault, and that was because AST/MCH was horrendously bad on launch and took a long time for them to fix. And frankly, was overtuned comparatively to the rest of the dungeons in that expansion. Only one raid did that, and it was Mhach, and that was Ozma being Ozma.

You couldn't die or lose aggro regardless unless you were not pushing your mitigation or you decided to pull wall to wall while the rest of the party refuses to aoe for whatever reason. Difficulty in dungeons specifically was and always is because of terrible players being terrible. The same players will refuse to do things out of sheer spite instead of playing the game as it was made.

The rest of your points are baseless at best and hyperbolic at worst, and is a complete waste of time going into, with the only exception being job design being poor. Job design was bad then too, and worse than now. DRK being the only exception to that rule.

[Averax]

Only one raid did that, and it was Dun Scaith, and that was Ozma being Ozma.

Correction, it was the Weeping City of Mhach.

Or as we liked to call it then, Wiping City.

[Enjuden]

Correction, it was the Weeping City of Mhach.

Or as we liked to call it then, Wiping City.

I'm old and gray in game. Oops.

[Boblawblah]

it’s my fault for staying subbed

It's not too late to change. Just don't buy DT, take an expansion off and do other things.