Square obviously not listening to feedback

[ninjasoldier014]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback?? And they still haven't made any comments indicating that they've heard us about Samurai changes since 6.1. They're giving us the ability to reduce the number of actions on our hotbars, so Kaiten addition should obviously be okay now? I also don't understand and don't like the change to tsubame. Why don't you just have it executable on the same button as iaijutsu? Why does it need to be after meikyou? It doesn't make sense at all, who asked??

This is really hard for me, as I thought Dawntrail would be a really good update on the combat and fix Samurai among other jobs. However, it really does look like they've dropped the ball once again, and are doubling down on their decision. I'll just keep playing Sage then, it actually looks fun.

[CelestiCer]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback?? And they still haven't made any comments indicating that they've heard us about Samurai changes since 6.1. They're giving us the ability to reduce the number of actions on our hotbars, so Kaiten addition should obviously be okay now? I also don't understand and don't like the change to tsubame. Why don't you just have it executable on the same button as iaijutsu? Why does it need to be after meikyou? It doesn't make sense at all, who asked??

This is really hard for me, as I thought Dawntrail would be a really good update on the combat and fix Samurai among other jobs. However, it really does look like they've dropped the ball once again, and are doubling down on their decision. I'll just keep playing Sage then, it actually looks fun.

Yay it's what I said in the General Discussion. Dawntrail will probably have a lot of content, but it matters very little to me if what I use to do said Content? isn't amazingly polished. For Samurai my main Job, it looks to be more clunky. The Meikyo part makes no sense as it just looks more limiting and restrictive to solve pretty much nothing... and no one asked indeed on-top of it

[Dyvid]

Yay it's what I said in the General Discussion. Dawntrail will probably have a lot of content, but it matters very little to me if what I use to do said Content? isn't amazingly polished. For Samurai my main Job, it looks to be more clunky. The Meikyo part makes no sense as it just looks more limiting and restrictive to solve pretty much nothing... and no one asked indeed on-top of it

Well said and very true. I can honestly say I didn't play Endwalker because of what they did to SMN. What little I did do was for the story because I never found I job I enjoyed playing. Hoping PIC changes that otherwise I guess I'm done.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback??

Serious question to put your argument in context: what percentage of the entire player base do you think posts on the forums? Do you think that the forums (or Reddit, or Twitter) are a random, representative sample of the entire player base? Is it possible that these social media sources are a bit of an echo chamber? Put another way, you argue that the developers aren't listening to feedback, but what makes you believe that you know what that feedback is?

As a thought experiment, consider the following: the same 25 people keep posting on the forum that reworked SMN is terrible, but SQEnix can see that way more players are spending way more hours playing SMN as compared to before the rework. You might think that the forum is "the feedback," but I would suggest that the time played is much more indicative of the revealed preference of the player base and is the better feedback.

[CelestiCer]

snip

This is such an overused argument... Echo Chambers... That's like saying most people love the high rent and housing prices cause most are still paying for high rent and housing prices... Like, you don't say? they love it they keep paying? woah we should double down on them paying more - statistically speaking... that doesn't make it right?

Game made dumber through Job simplifications and removing every optional depth or skill ceiling, is just bad. But in this Samurai case its not like Summoner btw, it purely is to make it clunkier for no reason. It literally solves, Nothing. It doesn't even make Samurai easier to play, so its not even in favor of your Summoner argument that was made easier

[Equitable_Remedy]

This is such an overused argument...

I think that you have the order reversed - it's an oft-used response to a very commonly made mistake. You didn't actually address the argument, though. What portion of the entire player base posts on social media? Do you think that that portion is random or representative of the player base as a whole? If not, is it possible that social media is sometimes not the best or even good evidence?

That's like saying most people love the high rent and housing prices cause most are still paying for high rent and housing prices... Like, you don't say? they love it they keep paying?

We're straying a bit far from the topic of the thread, but you're looking at the wrong thing. People pay high rent because they want to live in that expensive place - they don't pay the rent because they like paying rent. That they're willing to pay high rent to live in that expensive place is evidence that they want to live there. In the analogy, time is rent (the cost people pay) and the SMN changes are housing (the thing people consume).

woah we should double down on them paying more - statistically speaking... that doesn't make it right?

See the above - you're looking at the wrong thing. We should double down on building more housing in expensive places because people want to live in those places.

Game made dumber through Job simplifications and removing every optional depth or skill ceiling, is just bad.

Obviously, this isn't an argument, but an opinion stated as fact. It also begs the question - has the game really removed "every optional depth or skill ceiling?" That seems, charitably, a bit hyperbolic.

But in this Samurai case its not like Summoner btw, it purely is to make it clunkier for no reason. It literally solves, Nothing. It doesn't even make Samurai easier to play

You know that it was done for no reason, or do you mean that you don't know the reason? Of course, I'm not suggesting that the devs don't make mistakes - people make mistakes all the time. Maybe this was a mistake, but that brings us back to the point: is the same relatively small group of people repeating it to themselves good evidence of that?

[CelestiCer]

It does often seem like people complain about SE not listening to feedback when specifically their request are not acted upon. It is also worth thinking about how much of the player base people complaining in these forums and on other platforms make up. ( snip )

The point of Yoshi P telling everyone to go to the Forums for Feedback is to give... well Feedback. Square is clearly stonewalling or being very selective with their Feedback for to long...

*snip* Obviously, this isn't an argument, but an opinion stated as fact. It also begs the question - has the game really removed "every optional depth or skill ceiling?" That seems, charitably, a bit hyperbolic. You know that it was done for no reason, or do you mean that you don't know the reason? Of course, I'm not suggesting that the devs don't make mistakes - people make mistakes all the time. Maybe this was a mistake, but that brings us back to the point: is the same relatively small group of people repeating it to themselves good evidence of that?

I life and breath Samurai. I give a annalistic feedback on my favorite Job based on what I am seeing from the DT footage. In agreement with the OP, it looks clunky and we base that also off of the description they gave. As for evidence on rather or not we have lost depth or skill ceiling... have you been under a rock? do we play the same game called FFXIV? Samurai has been simplified so much up to 7 times now... shaving away at its ceiling yes... and that's just Samurai btw...

Repeatedly telling a group they are a minority for giving critique or feedback? does not erase Square's mistakes, flaws and broken-promises... if you're done with the semantics, at the very least show me " Job-Wise " what you disagree with or any take analytically. Break down the Job-trailer, rather then telling someone they are wrong for not equally sucking up the devs asses, mhm.

[Zarkovitch]

They do it's selective feedback.

[Elkanah]

We're straying a bit far from the topic of the thread, but you're looking at the wrong thing. People pay high rent because they want to live in that expensive place - they don't pay the rent because they like paying rent. That they're willing to pay high rent to live in that expensive place is evidence that they want to live there. In the analogy, time is rent (the cost people pay) and the SMN changes are housing (the thing people consume).

Except that a lot of those housing companies are pushing the rent up for no reason while wages are not increasing to meet that same setting (in most states and cities).

[AmiableApkallu]

I would suggest that the time played is much more indicative of the revealed preference of the player base and is the better feedback.

To go with this example, time played, by itself, is meaningless. When it's FC raid night, and someone asks, "Can someone please play a caster?", I go, "Yeah, I'll switch to SMN." I don't have fun with the job; I think the job is lacking in many ways. But when I'm in voice chat with some friendly folk, I'm willing to suffer that. I don't normally play a caster, but SMN is a freebie, so in the spur of the moment, whatever.

Where as before Endwalker SMN, maybe I would have put the effort into learning RDM or BLM, both jobs that I actually have fun with, but haven't felt like taking the time to learn to play competently.