Square obviously not listening to feedback

[ninjasoldier014]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback?? And they still haven't made any comments indicating that they've heard us about Samurai changes since 6.1. They're giving us the ability to reduce the number of actions on our hotbars, so Kaiten addition should obviously be okay now? I also don't understand and don't like the change to tsubame. Why don't you just have it executable on the same button as iaijutsu? Why does it need to be after meikyou? It doesn't make sense at all, who asked??

This is really hard for me, as I thought Dawntrail would be a really good update on the combat and fix Samurai among other jobs. However, it really does look like they've dropped the ball once again, and are doubling down on their decision. I'll just keep playing Sage then, it actually looks fun.

[CelestiCer]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback?? And they still haven't made any comments indicating that they've heard us about Samurai changes since 6.1. They're giving us the ability to reduce the number of actions on our hotbars, so Kaiten addition should obviously be okay now? I also don't understand and don't like the change to tsubame. Why don't you just have it executable on the same button as iaijutsu? Why does it need to be after meikyou? It doesn't make sense at all, who asked??

This is really hard for me, as I thought Dawntrail would be a really good update on the combat and fix Samurai among other jobs. However, it really does look like they've dropped the ball once again, and are doubling down on their decision. I'll just keep playing Sage then, it actually looks fun.

Yay it's what I said in the General Discussion. Dawntrail will probably have a lot of content, but it matters very little to me if what I use to do said Content? isn't amazingly polished. For Samurai my main Job, it looks to be more clunky. The Meikyo part makes no sense as it just looks more limiting and restrictive to solve pretty much nothing... and no one asked indeed on-top of it

[Equitable_Remedy]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback??

Serious question to put your argument in context: what percentage of the entire player base do you think posts on the forums? Do you think that the forums (or Reddit, or Twitter) are a random, representative sample of the entire player base? Is it possible that these social media sources are a bit of an echo chamber? Put another way, you argue that the developers aren't listening to feedback, but what makes you believe that you know what that feedback is?

As a thought experiment, consider the following: the same 25 people keep posting on the forum that reworked SMN is terrible, but SQEnix can see that way more players are spending way more hours playing SMN as compared to before the rework. You might think that the forum is "the feedback," but I would suggest that the time played is much more indicative of the revealed preference of the player base and is the better feedback.

[CelestiCer]

snip

This is such an overused argument... Echo Chambers... That's like saying most people love the high rent and housing prices cause most are still paying for high rent and housing prices... Like, you don't say? they love it they keep paying? woah we should double down on them paying more - statistically speaking... that doesn't make it right?

Game made dumber through Job simplifications and removing every optional depth or skill ceiling, is just bad. But in this Samurai case its not like Summoner btw, it purely is to make it clunkier for no reason. It literally solves, Nothing. It doesn't even make Samurai easier to play, so its not even in favor of your Summoner argument that was made easier

[AmiableApkallu]

I would suggest that the time played is much more indicative of the revealed preference of the player base and is the better feedback.

To go with this example, time played, by itself, is meaningless. When it's FC raid night, and someone asks, "Can someone please play a caster?", I go, "Yeah, I'll switch to SMN." I don't have fun with the job; I think the job is lacking in many ways. But when I'm in voice chat with some friendly folk, I'm willing to suffer that. I don't normally play a caster, but SMN is a freebie, so in the spur of the moment, whatever.

Where as before Endwalker SMN, maybe I would have put the effort into learning RDM or BLM, both jobs that I actually have fun with, but haven't felt like taking the time to learn to play competently.

[vetch]

I'm just so confused on so many decisions they made, and the fact they said "We listened to feedback", like who's feedback??

Understand this statement for the PR smokescreen that it is. FF14 has so many players that CBU3 can literally say this about any change they come up with, because there's always a cluster somewhere clamoring for any direction the game could possibly take, as well as a legion of apologists to hunt (or conjure) the relevant feedback up and pretend like it was a significant opinion that forced CBU3 to implement the unpopular change du jour.

The reality is that CBU3 does what is convenient for them, which usually involves pruning game features to reduce their QA costs and development overhead.

[xivYuiM]

Understand this statement for the PR smokescreen that it is. FF14 has so many players that CBU3 can literally say this about any change they come up with, because there's always a cluster somewhere clamoring for any direction the game could possibly take, as well as a legion of apologists to hunt (or conjure) the relevant feedback up and pretend like it was a significant opinion that forced CBU3 to implement the unpopular change du jour.

The reality is that CBU3 does what is convenient for them, which usually involves pruning game features to reduce their QA costs and development overhead.

This has been the sad reality since the launch of stormblood where every patch has made the game worse. This game will have a terrible legacy despite being one of the best multiplayer games of all time circa 2015.

[SieyaM]

It does often seem like people complain about SE not listening to feedback when specifically their request are not acted upon. It is also worth thinking about how much of the player base people complaining in these forums and on other platforms make up. If it's only a few hundred, or even thousand then is it worth acting on their advice to please them at the risk of alienating tens of thousands that are already happily playing without complaint. There is no guarantee that the changes suggested here or other places would enhance the experience for everyone playing, or even the majority of players. It's also worth remembering this is an international game, and I feel it's primary audience is the Japanese base and their feedback is what the team listens to the most which may or may not align with what we see in the NA boards. All that to say that small groups of friends and people on message boards that you interact with because you share similar opinions about the game do not translate into a majority of players.

[ninjasoldier014]

Serious question to put your argument in context: what percentage of the entire player base do you think posts on the forums? Do you think that the forums (or Reddit, or Twitter) are a random, representative sample of the entire player base? Is it possible that these social media sources are a bit of an echo chamber? Put another way, you argue that the developers aren't listening to feedback, but what makes you believe that you know what that feedback is?

As a thought experiment, consider the following: the same 25 people keep posting on the forum that reworked SMN is terrible, but SQEnix can see that way more players are spending way more hours playing SMN as compared to before the rework. You might think that the forum is "the feedback," but I would suggest that the time played is much more indicative of the revealed preference of the player base and is the better feedback.

It was a genuine question, like who's feedback are they listening to, to come to these conclusions. One would assume that these are the official forums, so they would hold weight. However, that of course isn't just the case. But this isn't the only location on the internet that people are complaining about kaiten...

[Equitable_Remedy]

This is such an overused argument...

I think that you have the order reversed - it's an oft-used response to a very commonly made mistake. You didn't actually address the argument, though. What portion of the entire player base posts on social media? Do you think that that portion is random or representative of the player base as a whole? If not, is it possible that social media is sometimes not the best or even good evidence?

That's like saying most people love the high rent and housing prices cause most are still paying for high rent and housing prices... Like, you don't say? they love it they keep paying?

We're straying a bit far from the topic of the thread, but you're looking at the wrong thing. People pay high rent because they want to live in that expensive place - they don't pay the rent because they like paying rent. That they're willing to pay high rent to live in that expensive place is evidence that they want to live there. In the analogy, time is rent (the cost people pay) and the SMN changes are housing (the thing people consume).

woah we should double down on them paying more - statistically speaking... that doesn't make it right?

See the above - you're looking at the wrong thing. We should double down on building more housing in expensive places because people want to live in those places.

Game made dumber through Job simplifications and removing every optional depth or skill ceiling, is just bad.

Obviously, this isn't an argument, but an opinion stated as fact. It also begs the question - has the game really removed "every optional depth or skill ceiling?" That seems, charitably, a bit hyperbolic.

But in this Samurai case its not like Summoner btw, it purely is to make it clunkier for no reason. It literally solves, Nothing. It doesn't even make Samurai easier to play

You know that it was done for no reason, or do you mean that you don't know the reason? Of course, I'm not suggesting that the devs don't make mistakes - people make mistakes all the time. Maybe this was a mistake, but that brings us back to the point: is the same relatively small group of people repeating it to themselves good evidence of that?