Thread: Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

What? You liked that they removed choice and freedom? The standard rotation didn't change.

A free fire proc is nice, but every change they made was in service of gutting the job

I like that they removed non-standard from the game, yes. The standard rotation isn't enough to justify playing blm in the top end content. It's a disservice to the team.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

I like that they removed non-standard from the game, yes. The standard rotation isn't enough to justify playing blm in the top end content. It's a disservice to the team.

So your stance is that skill expression is bad and the only skill expression in the game should be people not messing up a basic rotation?

Originally Posted by Ramiee

So your stance is that skill expression is bad and the only skill expression in the game should be people not messing up a basic rotation?

My stance is you should express skill through how you are able to prog content and how cleanly and consistently you deal with mechanics. Rotations shouldn't ever be the most complicated part of the game or even close. Encounters should always take the cake. That's where you should be expressing your skill.

Rotations should feel good to execute and be consistent. You should have a clearly defined execution to master, and you should expect yourself to master it through enough repetition. Then you can focus entirely on the true challenge of the game which is hard encounters. I feel like a lot of people who want for difficult and contrived rotations just don't do the hard content in the game or have done it so many times that it's all muscle memory for them and they're out of touch with what the game's difficulty really is.

Either way, the changes happened and they're not going back. You might just not be a good fit for this mmo. The japanese fanbase wants for rotations to be standardized for a good reason.

Also it's funny how you can only respond with vitriol and ad hominem at someone who is just enthusiastic about progress and refinement from the dev team. Get a better hobby.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

My stance is you should express skill through how you are able to prog content and how cleanly and consistently you deal with mechanics. Rotations shouldn't ever be the most complicated part of the game or even close. Encounters should always take the cake. That's where you should be expressing your skill.

Rotations should feel good to execute and be consistent. You should have a clearly defined execution to master, and you should expect yourself to master it through enough repetition. Then you can focus entirely on the true challenge of the game which is hard encounters. I feel like a lot of people who want for difficult and contrived rotations just don't do the hard content in the game.

Do you do the hard content in the game? Did you clear TOP and Dragonsong? Because I did. On Black Mage, too! And I can tell you the DT version of BLM would feel horrible to play in both of those fights, and will feel horrible to week 1 prog with (hey, another thing you can check I did! I also did it in past expansions!). You talk with such authority about "skill expression through progression"- have you done early progression? Like, with week 1 gear and actually cleared a tier? Do you understand what benefits Black Mages in those scenarios? How these changes will (negatively) impact their ability to perform and adapt both to hard fights (TOP/DSR) and in early prog (where wonky strategies reign and dps out is actually important)? I don't think you actually know how those things play like, and you have no knowledge of the hardest fights in the game or early, difficult Savage prog. I'm open to being proven wrong, though :>

Your comment about the JP playerbase is just plain wrong. In fact, if you have some knowledge of Japanese, I invite you to check their DPS board- the SAM and BLM threads have a lot of traction in the past few days, and while I claim no expertise in their cultural nuances, some of the posts there feel very aggressively negative when coming from JP players (legitimately felt like something I'd read in our English forums!). I, naturally, took my time to Like! their posts, as they resonate with me (and, in fact, I started cleaning up my ShB BLM gameplay by watching Te Tu and wondering about what he was doing in some runs- I even messaged him on Yt and he replied every time!).

What you're saying is completely wrong, anyway. If the game had no rotation (like, all you did was move around) it would become completely trivial. Half of the challenge in this game comes from mastering your job and rotation.
Imagine saying something like "a weapon's moveset doesn't matter at all in Monster Hunter! It's all about learning the monster AI patterns and attack ranges" or "picking a good build and synergistic party doesn't matter in Baldur's Gate 3! It's all about how you navigate the encounter!". It's such a silly stance.

Originally Posted by Galvuu

Do you do the hard content in the game? Did you clear TOP and Dragonsong? Because I did. On Black Mage, too! And I can tell you the DT version of BLM would feel horrible to play in both of those fights, and will feel horrible to week 1 prog with (hey, another thing you can check I did! I also did it in past expansions!). You talk with such authority about "skill expression through progression"- have you done early progression? Like, with week 1 gear and actually cleared a tier? Do you understand what benefits Black Mages in those scenarios? How these changes will (negatively) impact their ability to perform and adapt both to hard fights (TOP/DSR) and in early prog (where wonky strategies reign and dps out is actually important)? I don't think you actually know how those things play like, and you have no knowledge of the hardest fights in the game or early, difficult Savage prog. I'm open to being proven wrong, though :>

Your comment about the JP playerbase is just plain wrong. In fact, if you have some knowledge of Japanese, I invite you to check their DPS board- the SAM and BLM threads have a lot of traction in the past few days, and while I claim no expertise in their cultural nuances, some of the posts there feel very aggressively negative when coming from JP players (legitimately felt like something I'd read in our English forums!). I, naturally, took my time to Like! their posts, as they resonate with me (and, in fact, I started cleaning up my ShB BLM gameplay by watching Te Tu and wondering about what he was doing in some runs- I even messaged him on Yt and he replied every time!).

What you're saying is completely wrong, anyway. If the game had no rotation (like, all you did was move around) it would become completely trivial. Half of the challenge in this game comes from mastering your job and rotation.
Imagine saying something like "a weapon's moveset doesn't matter at all in Monster Hunter! It's all about learning the monster AI patterns and attack ranges" or "picking a good build and synergistic party doesn't matter in Baldur's Gate 3! It's all about how you navigate the encounter!". It's such a silly stance.

Good for you. Nobody said the game should have no rotation. Just that the rotations should be clearly defined and sensible.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Good for you. Nobody said the game should have no rotation. Just that the rotations should be clearly defined and sensible.

You said very clearly that rotations should be an after thought to "progression" and "doing hard mechanics", and that people saying otherwise don't prog fights or do Ultimates. So my questions stand.
The current "standard" rotation (that's also getting butchered, by the way!) is very much sensible and pretty clearly defined.
So, I ask again, did you do those things you accused others of not doing? And do you understand what Black Mage needs to function properly at that level?
(I obviously shouldn't feed the troll, so I'll just leave it at this, because I already know the answer is "no" and am being petty for the sake of it)

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

My stance is you should express skill through how you are able to prog content and how cleanly and consistently you deal with mechanics. Rotations shouldn't ever be the most complicated part of the game or even close. Encounters should always take the cake. That's where you should be expressing your skill.

Rotations should feel good to execute and be consistent. You should have a clearly defined execution to master, and you should expect yourself to master it through enough repetition. Then you can focus entirely on the true challenge of the game which is hard encounters. I feel like a lot of people who want for difficult and contrived rotations just don't do the hard content in the game or have done it so many times that it's all muscle memory for them and they're out of touch with what the game's difficulty really is.

Either way, the changes happened and they're not going back. You might just not be a good fit for this mmo. The japanese fanbase wants for rotations to be standardized for a good reason.

Also it's funny how you can only respond with vitriol and ad hominem at someone who is just enthusiastic about progress and refinement from the dev team. Get a better hobby.

This is a hot take coming from someone who doesn't do Savage or Ultimate. I'm curious what exactly you have experience progging?

Originally Posted by MimaMeouri

This is a hot take coming from someone who doesn't do Savage or Ultimate. I'm curious what exactly you have experience progging?

You should note you're trying to argue with someone who thinks normal raids/extreme trials are hard content.

Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

You should note you're trying to argue with someone who thinks normal raids/extreme trials are hard content.

There's no argument in ad hominem. I have way less experience playing this game than most of the community and I don't consider myself good yet, but it's going to be funny when you're not as good at the game as I am. What will you say when you can't talk down to me? My opinions won't change but my position will.

I'm grinding UWU currently and you're not going to stay ahead very long. It is only a matter of time until most of this community is not as good at the game as me.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

There's no argument in ad hominem. I have way less experience playing this game than most of the community and I don't consider myself good yet, but it's going to be funny when you're not as good at the game as I am. What will you say when you can't talk down to me? My opinions won't change but my position will.

I'm grinding UWU currently and you're not going to stay ahead very long. It is only a matter of time until most of this community is not as good at the game as me.

Glad you admitted to having way less experience with the game than others. So let the black mage enjoyers speak their mind on how they feel about the changes instead of trying to talk to them like their feedback doesn't matter.