Thread: Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If I think BLM in its current form is too complex why does that not invoke the same argument you are using to argue against non standard lines. You think they are too complex and that more people should have access to top level play on BLM. What if I think standard BLM is too hard (I don’t I’m just arguing thereoticals). Isn’t it elitist for you to not want to dumb BLM down further to accomodate me.

So where does the “complexity reduction of BLM” end. For all classes it functionally ends when you squish them down into healers

It ends where it ended. The rotation is standardized and streamlined. This is the goal the devs set out to accomplish and they did just that. If you don't like it, that's too bad. The enjoyment of the majority is far more important than the enjoyment of a few elitists. You can always make your own game with a bunch of weird situational non-standard gameplay. See how successful it is.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

It ends where it ended. The rotation is standardized and streamlined. This is the goal the devs set out to accomplish and they did just that. If you don't like it, that's too bad. The enjoyment of the majority is far more important than the enjoyment of a few elitists. You can always make your own game with a bunch of weird situational non-standard gameplay. See how successful it is.

The "goal" from what I figured from the slides was to make MP generation not tick-dependent, which is a good thing. Please refer me to where the goal was explicitly stated to kill off non-standard BLM gameplay in an effort to streamline and unify Black Mage gameplay down to one route, because I'm not buying it otherwise. You call it enjoyment of elitists, but I feel like it would be neat if we actually took into account what our dear Yoshi P does on Black Mage at the moment - there is probably data somewhere on it.

If enough feedback comes in asking for non-Blizzard-spells during Umbral Ice to generate MP (a reasonable request if you ask me, depending on MP values) and that gets implemented, then we'd essentially have non-standard available again with a different MP system, which is what many don't mind. Personally also hoping that the Astral Hearts (or whatever the new gauge is) don't empty out upon entering Umbral Ice and just "freeze" for lack of a better pun, then we'd have a solid all-around Black Mage with the most annoying part, the MP regen ticks, fixed.

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

The "goal" from what I figured from the slides was to make MP generation not tick-dependent, which is a good thing. Please refer me to where the goal was explicitly stated to kill off non-standard BLM gameplay in an effort to streamline and unify Black Mage gameplay down to one route, because I'm not buying it otherwise. You call it enjoyment of elitists, but I feel like it would be neat if we actually took into account what our dear Yoshi P does on Black Mage at the moment - there is probably data somewhere on it.

If enough feedback comes in asking for non-Blizzard-spells during Umbral Ice to generate MP (a reasonable request if you ask me, depending on MP values) and that gets implemented, then we'd essentially have non-standard available again with a different MP system, which is what many don't mind. Personally also hoping that the Astral Hearts (or whatever the new gauge is) don't empty out upon entering Umbral Ice and just "freeze" for lack of a better pun, then we'd have a solid all-around Black Mage with the most annoying part, the MP regen ticks, fixed.

Their entire goal with job design in dawntrail is to streamline the jobs and then give further identity to them in the next expansion.

The whole point of astral fire is that you're rushing to get all your power out within the window you have available. If it carried over to umbral ice it would defeat the fantasy of astral fire phases. If you didn't get your explosions out properly, try again next time from scratch. It doesn't make any sense for the gauge to carry over to umbral ice and would significantly lessen the weight and urgency of astral fire. It's supposed to feel like a hot streak.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Their entire goal with job design in dawntrail is to streamline the jobs and then give further identity to them in the next expansion.

The whole point of astral fire is that you're rushing to get all your power out within the window you have available. If it carried over to umbral ice it would defeat the fantasy of astral fire phases. If you didn't get your explosions out properly, try again next time from scratch. It doesn't make any sense for the gauge to carry over to umbral ice and would significantly lessen the weight and urgency of astral fire. It's supposed to feel like a hot streak.

They fundamentally are streamlining jobs by making sure things aren't dependent on timers as much as action input. In case of BLM, this means they streamline MP generation with spells casted rather than landing on MP server ticks. I don't see the need to streamline BLM by gutting non-standard lines specifically when they actually give a BLM more options.

And to be honest, I think it would be kinda foul if the new Astral gauge just deleted stacks if you failed to hit six stacks and then use <High Fire IV>. Simply failing to finish spellcasts on Black Mage alone is a huge loss of damage since all damage Black Mage does is GCD (i.e. potency-per-second is a usable metric).

So if you can't expend less than six Astral Hearts for <High Fire IV> (similar to Pitch Perfect, for lower potency) or are unable to retain stacks between AF/UI and for whatever reason you cannot reach it in that fire cycle, that is possibly a HUGE potency loss, the likes the other casters do not have to deal with in any capacity.

Lastly, we carry Umbral Hearts into Astral Fire. Us carrying what looks like Astral Hearts into Umbral Ice and retain them between cycles does not seem far fetched for me.

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

They fundamentally are streamlining jobs by making sure things aren't dependent on timers as much as action input. In case of BLM, this means they streamline MP generation with spells casted rather than landing on MP server ticks. I don't see the need to streamline BLM by gutting non-standard lines specifically when they actually give a BLM more options.

And to be honest, I think it would be kinda foul if the new Astral gauge just deleted stacks if you failed to hit six stacks and then use <High Fire IV>. Simply failing to finish spellcasts on Black Mage alone is a huge loss of damage since all damage Black Mage does is GCD (i.e. potency-per-second is a usable metric).

So if you can't expend less than six Astral Hearts for <High Fire IV> (similar to Pitch Perfect, for lower potency) or are unable to retain stacks between AF/UI and for whatever reason you cannot reach it in that fire cycle, that is possibly a HUGE potency loss, the likes the other casters do not have to deal with in any capacity.

Lastly, we carry Umbral Hearts into Astral Fire. Us carrying what looks like Astral Hearts into Umbral Ice and retain them between cycles does not seem far fetched for me.

So you think it would take too much skill for astral hearts to carry over? Interesting.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

So you think it would take too much skill for astral hearts to carry over? Interesting.

That is literally not what I said and if my grammar was off, not what I would infer. Please quote the part of what I said that made you believe I thought so.

I said and implied it would be unnecessarily punishing if you CAN'T carry over Astral Hearts OR expend them at less than six before the next Umbral Ice phase. Why would it take too much skill for Astral Hearts to carry over? It would literally be MORE flexible if that was possible and would allow alternate Fire lines and different timings for <High Fire IV>, i.e. be less punishing for everyone.

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

That is literally not what I said and if my grammar was off, not what I would infer. Please quote the part of what I said that made you believe I thought so.

I said and implied it would be unnecessarily punishing if you CAN'T carry over Astral Hearts OR expend them at less than six before the next Umbral Ice phase. Why would it take too much skill for Astral Hearts to carry over? It would literally be MORE flexible if that was possible and would allow alternate Fire lines and different timings for <High Fire IV>, i.e. be less punishing for everyone.

I meant to not carry over, my bad.