Thread: Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If on log in everyone instantly got a clear of the current savage tier and a full suite of relics then savage engagement will reach 100%

Yeah but we both know how dumb of an assertion that was for you to make.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Yeah but we both know how dumb of an assertion that was for you to make.

I made exactly the same assertion as you did

You entire half page argument I replied to basically boils down to “jobs can’t have complexity because then you are creating restrictions on content and that’s elitist”

Where is the logical conclusion of that argument

What if I think standard rotation BLM is too hard. Aren’t you being restrictive to me? What if I want to clear savage spamming fire 1? Ripping our job complexity in an effort to not be “elitist” is such a flawed argument because it has no logical conclusion

The only way to remove “elitism” of entry and optimisation of higher end content is to just remove said content from the game and flatten every job into a healer

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I made exactly the same assertion as you did

You entire half page argument I replied to basically boils down to “jobs can’t have complexity because then you are creating restrictions on content and that’s elitist”

Where is the logical conclusion of that argument

What if I think standard rotation BLM is too hard. Aren’t you being restrictive to me? What if I want to clear savage spamming fire 1? Ripping our job complexity in an effort to not be “elitist” is such a flawed argument because it has no logical conclusion

The only way to remove “elitism” of entry and optimisation of higher end content is to just remove said content from the game and flatten every job into a healer

No you didn't? You made an extreme exaggeration and think you had a gotcha moment. The logical conclusion of the argument is that it's better for jobs to just make sense to make room for complicated encounters and player engagement. You can get carried through savage spamming fire 1 if you want. There's no reason you couldn't do that. You'd just look like a fool if anyone even noticed. The job is plenty complex played the way it is intended to be played.

Try to have more nuance instead of being melodramatic.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

No you didn't? You made an extreme exaggeration and think you had a gotcha moment. The logical conclusion of the argument is that it's better for jobs to just make sense to make room for complicated encounters and player engagement. You can get carried through savage spamming fire 1 if you want. There's no reason you couldn't do that. You'd just look like a fool if anyone even noticed. The job is plenty complex played the way it is intended to be played.

Try to have more nuance instead of being melodramatic.

If I think BLM in its current form is too complex why does that not invoke the same argument you are using to argue against non standard lines. You think they are too complex and that more people should have access to top level play on BLM. What if I think standard BLM is too hard (I don’t I’m just arguing thereoticals). Isn’t it elitist for you to not want to dumb BLM down further to accomodate me.

So where does the “complexity reduction of BLM” end. For all classes it functionally ends when you squish them down into healers

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If I think BLM in its current form is too complex why does that not invoke the same argument you are using to argue against non standard lines. You think they are too complex and that more people should have access to top level play on BLM. What if I think standard BLM is too hard (I don’t I’m just arguing thereoticals). Isn’t it elitist for you to not want to dumb BLM down further to accomodate me.

So where does the “complexity reduction of BLM” end. For all classes it functionally ends when you squish them down into healers

It ends where it ended. The rotation is standardized and streamlined. This is the goal the devs set out to accomplish and they did just that. If you don't like it, that's too bad. The enjoyment of the majority is far more important than the enjoyment of a few elitists. You can always make your own game with a bunch of weird situational non-standard gameplay. See how successful it is.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

It ends where it ended. The rotation is standardized and streamlined. This is the goal the devs set out to accomplish and they did just that. If you don't like it, that's too bad. The enjoyment of the majority is far more important than the enjoyment of a few elitists. You can always make your own game with a bunch of weird situational non-standard gameplay. See how successful it is.

The "goal" from what I figured from the slides was to make MP generation not tick-dependent, which is a good thing. Please refer me to where the goal was explicitly stated to kill off non-standard BLM gameplay in an effort to streamline and unify Black Mage gameplay down to one route, because I'm not buying it otherwise. You call it enjoyment of elitists, but I feel like it would be neat if we actually took into account what our dear Yoshi P does on Black Mage at the moment - there is probably data somewhere on it.

If enough feedback comes in asking for non-Blizzard-spells during Umbral Ice to generate MP (a reasonable request if you ask me, depending on MP values) and that gets implemented, then we'd essentially have non-standard available again with a different MP system, which is what many don't mind. Personally also hoping that the Astral Hearts (or whatever the new gauge is) don't empty out upon entering Umbral Ice and just "freeze" for lack of a better pun, then we'd have a solid all-around Black Mage with the most annoying part, the MP regen ticks, fixed.

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

The "goal" from what I figured from the slides was to make MP generation not tick-dependent, which is a good thing. Please refer me to where the goal was explicitly stated to kill off non-standard BLM gameplay in an effort to streamline and unify Black Mage gameplay down to one route, because I'm not buying it otherwise. You call it enjoyment of elitists, but I feel like it would be neat if we actually took into account what our dear Yoshi P does on Black Mage at the moment - there is probably data somewhere on it.

If enough feedback comes in asking for non-Blizzard-spells during Umbral Ice to generate MP (a reasonable request if you ask me, depending on MP values) and that gets implemented, then we'd essentially have non-standard available again with a different MP system, which is what many don't mind. Personally also hoping that the Astral Hearts (or whatever the new gauge is) don't empty out upon entering Umbral Ice and just "freeze" for lack of a better pun, then we'd have a solid all-around Black Mage with the most annoying part, the MP regen ticks, fixed.

Their entire goal with job design in dawntrail is to streamline the jobs and then give further identity to them in the next expansion.

The whole point of astral fire is that you're rushing to get all your power out within the window you have available. If it carried over to umbral ice it would defeat the fantasy of astral fire phases. If you didn't get your explosions out properly, try again next time from scratch. It doesn't make any sense for the gauge to carry over to umbral ice and would significantly lessen the weight and urgency of astral fire. It's supposed to feel like a hot streak.