Thread: Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I think this change would legitimately help them, because one of its effects is making it much easier to cast six Fire IVs in an astral cycle. Remember, astral paradox is instant cast and grants an automatic Firestarter proc that's no longer a loss to use immediately, so you get a minimum of two free, instant AF3 refreshes over the course of a cycle (and a third free movement opportunity that's less under your control because it depends on when Thunder is expiring, although in a pinch using High Thunder to move is still going to output more damage at less MP cost than resorting to Scathe).

This means that someone who previously struggled with finding a way to safely cast three or four F4s in a row can now cast them in three sets of two or something.

Fire phase will be harder to cast now, because instant-cast Paradox means that you lose 2.34s of being able to cast any ability, because of the GCD's timer, meaning that you're left with on 13s on the AF timer. It's going to be harder to cast six Fire IVs, and when you're clipping oGCDs because you're using them during a long cast, instead of instant casts or short F3/B4 casts, not only will you not be able to cast despair, you'll lose your Flare Star due to not casting 6 Fire IVs. These changes do nothing for harm them to be honest, especially when it's better to do AF1 F3P because you'll gain more damage which wields much more value compared to using it to extend fire phase, and get delayed on the 2 min burst. Of course, I'm not the best black mage, but I don't think this really helps, I feel like this would harm them more.

Originally Posted by Chocochic

Fire phase will be harder to cast now, because instant-cast Paradox means that you lose 2.34s of being able to cast any ability, because of the GCD's timer, meaning that you're left with on 13s on the AF timer. It's going to be harder to cast six Fire IVs, and when you're clipping oGCDs because you're using them during a long cast, instead of instant casts or short F3/B4 casts, not only will you not be able to cast despair, you'll lose your Flare Star due to not casting 6 Fire IVs. These changes do nothing for harm them to be honest, especially when it's better to do AF1 F3P because you'll gain more damage which wields much more value compared to using it to extend fire phase, and get delayed on the 2 min burst. Of course, I'm not the best black mage, but I don't think this really helps, I feel like this would harm them more.

No, I think you're wrong on this one. It's true that refreshing AF at the beginning of GCD leaves you with a little less time than refreshing it at the end of a GCD, but unless you're really trying to cut corners and strip things to the bone (which usually only happened if you were skipping B3/B4 in the first place, and would very rarely happen if you were playing standard but wound up having to use both Xeno and Thunder back to back), but in general having an instant cast spell that refreshes your timer is exactly what a weak or average player needs even though it might set a strong player doing optimization tricks back.

Remember, it's not just that Paradox is an instant cast, but that Paradox automatically gives you a second instant cast that also refreshes AF3. So like, your astral cycle begins, you cast F4, you cast F4, you cast F4... oops! Abort, gotta move! Okay, you cast F4... ack! Interrupted again! Paradox! Now you still have to cast two more F4s... but you have a Firestarter proc to use. You could go F4 F4 Firestarter F4 F4, or even F4 Firestarter F4 F4 F4 if the fight's gotten less hectic, or something like that.

The basic fact of having two instant-cast AF3 refreshes rather than one is going to make the 10000MP + 3UH astral cycle much more forgiving than it was before, because someone who wants to play maximally careful can just go F4x2, Paradox, F4x2, Firestarter, F4x2, Despair, and effectively have close to 45 seconds of cumulative fire phase uptime in which they just need to fit one Xeno and one Thunder.

I do think that Flare Star ought to get charged up by any fire spell, not just F4/Flare, but even its current restrictive state is less harsh than it looks.

Originally Posted by Voidmage

If you do three sets then sure, I guess it will help those players.
But it will be more clunky then making the timer longer because instant cast always give this awkward waiting time after casting them.
For everyone who did managed to get 6 F4's in it will be more railroaded because either you do 4 F4's > Paradox > 3 F4's or have enough spellspeed for it to have some comfort and that sucks for those who liked lower spell speeds.

Basically, the fact that we'll be refreshing AF3 with instant spells means that a refresh buys us 12.5 seconds instead of 15 seconds, but, having a whole extra refresh means that we're going to have a potential 15 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 40 seconds of AF3 time total, where before we had around 30. So I'm not at all worried about this increasing difficulty for newer or weaker players.

I think it depends on the potency of the new finisher. As it is now its not worth it to start in UI just to get the stacks for it but potencies can change so we probably will only know when Dawntrail goes live.

Right now, Flare Star hits only a little harder than Despair, although that might change. I guess the question is whether A) fire opener lets you cast Flare Star under raid buffs B) ice opener lets you cast Flare Star under raid buffs (an ice opener contains like 11 GCDs before flare star, after all) C) a fight's length is such that going fire vs. ice actually changes how many Flare Stars you can cast all together. I'm guessing that not casting B3 or B4 makes up for casting your first Flare Star a little bit later, but I could see it going either way, and wouldn't mind opening with ice spells after several expansions of opening with fire spells instead.

Nope, i dont realy see, why i should be punished.
Ok, it can happen in new content, that i have trouble with the rotation, because im focusing to much of the battle field and arent able to cast (like, in Troja, or the third god raid).
But in overall do i have rarely trouble, with shooting 6 fire4 in one rotation. 3 or maybe even 4x fire 4, than refresher with paradox or fire1, and than again 3 fire4 and Despair as finisher.
And if i feel, that im not able to shoot all, do i simply using flare and despair, to end my mp and go into ice mode. I didnt care so much about it, to have a perfect rotation each time. If i srew up, do i trying to come back into my flow as fast as possible (one thing i like about blm is, that you can easily come back, after you entered your ice phase).

Its possible, that some problems will coming. Like, doing solo content with Blm (i play Blm mostly in group content and had trouble in early solo content). I can hardly imaging the Blm in solo Story fights, because of no self heal option and movement option (like the fight again the old guy in shb, where i needed the heal ability and movement of dancer, to manage that fight) and slow casting time (in the fight again zenos had i mostly used fire 1, because there was rarely time for the strong spells, without instant cast option).
But, i had rarely problems with the Blm in group content. Except of the early runs, where you learn the new stuff. The only thing is, that im not a Player who like the hardest stuff. So, i never tried ultima stuff (i can hardly image success in that with any class). The only extrem stuff that i did was Hydaelin and Zodiac, when they came out. And there had i less trouble.

And, from what i saw, has the Blm mostly only improvements to the earlier stuff. At last, if you using the standard rotations.
Ice spells looks to increase your mp faster as before (had it today multiple times, that i ended up with only 6k mp, because the mp regenerated to slow in the ice phase, after using 2 ice spells). You dont has to keep track of the thunder timer anymore (runned it out, because i forgot them).
And, you will have a additional final attack at the rotation you allready did.
The only thing that i dislike is, that Thunder isnt usable at the start anymore. But that is not much of important. And, that Despair didnt fill the new gauge.

And i dont worry about the mp reg in lower lvl, simply because the blm didnt had any trouble yet. And i fail to see noticable drawbacks, that can not be fixed with the Dream skill (have now a reason to use it sometimes).

The only improvement i would have in my mind now would be, to reduce the casting time of the spells a little.
The biggest problem of the Blm, is his slow speed. That can make the rest of the mechanic worse (reason, why i prefer spell speed in my stuff, even, when im a bit lower, as the speed build say, that you would need).

Originally Posted by Keichi

Nope, i dont realy see, why i should be punished.
Ok, it can happen in new content, that i have trouble with the rotation, because im focusing to much of the battle field and arent able to cast (like, in Troja, or the third god raid).
But in overall do i have rarely trouble, with shooting 6 fire4 in one rotation. 3 or maybe even 4x fire 4, than refresher with paradox or fire1, and than again 3 fire4 and Despair as finisher.
And if i feel, that im not able to shoot all, do i simply using flare and despair, to end my mp and go into ice mode. I didnt care so much about it, to have a perfect rotation each time. If i srew up, do i trying to come back into my flow as fast as possible (one thing i like about blm is, that you can easily come back, after you entered your ice phase).

Before the changes you maybe lost one or two fire 4 by going into UI early. Now you also lose the new finisher and the stacks you build, so quit a dps loss. It is kinda more rigid now.
Its also probably better now to use 4 fire 4 > paradox > 3 fire 4 in the fire phase because of the instant cast of paradox and the timer ticking "earlier".

Solo content won't be a big problem, its easy enough already and there is always the very easy difficulty. Also mostly if there were dps checks in solo content, you were able to stand still anyway.

Originally Posted by Keichi

And, from what i saw, has the Blm mostly only improvements to the earlier stuff. At last, if you using the standard rotations.
Ice spells looks to increase your mp faster as before (had it today multiple times, that i ended up with only 6k mp, because the mp regenerated to slow in the ice phase, after using 2 ice spells).

This I don't understand or maybe my english is to bad. Normaly Blizzard 3, Blizzard 4 and Paradox is enough to regen all mana. Even if I use nonstandard I sometimes cap my mana. May I ask where you refresh thunder? That was also able to give time.
I'm not doubting you just trying to get what you mean.

Originally Posted by Keichi

The only improvement i would have in my mind now would be, to reduce the casting time of the spells a little.
The biggest problem of the Blm, is his slow speed. That can make the rest of the mechanic worse (reason, why i prefer spell speed in my stuff, even, when im a bit lower, as the speed build say, that you would need).

If i interpret the changes right then spell speed should be far better now then crit (a bummer for me who goes crit). I am against lowering spell speed. Its one of the few things that makes blm fun and in my opinion its identity. I also like slow cast times because it gives me time to look at the fight and think.

Originally Posted by Voidmage

This I don't understand or maybe my english is to bad. Normaly Blizzard 3, Blizzard 4 and Paradox is enough to regen all mana. Even if I use nonstandard I sometimes cap my mana. May I ask where you refresh thunder? That was also able to give time.
I'm not doubting you just trying to get what you mean.


If i interpret the changes right then spell speed should be far better now then crit (a bummer for me who goes crit). I am against lowering spell speed. Its one of the few things that makes blm fun and in my opinion its identity. I also like slow cast times because it gives me time to look at the fight and think.

I was probably simply to fast in the ice phase.
I was in the 75er dungeon and had it multiple times, that i used B3, to switch from fire phase to ice phase and used then b4, to obtain the 3 shards. And switched than allready back to fire with only 6k mp (i didnt played much of attention, because it was only with "side at side" to lvl up the npc). I was probably allways 1-2 seconds to fast with the switch (because the mp regenerated over time and not with action).

The mp change should be positiv, because that scenario shouldnt happen anymore (maybe only in the very first lvl areas, when you only have 1-2 ice soul ready).

Originally Posted by Keichi

I was probably simply to fast in the ice phase.
I was in the 75er dungeon and had it multiple times, that i used B3, to switch from fire phase to ice phase and used then b4, to obtain the 3 shards. And switched than allready back to fire with only 6k mp (i didnt played much of attention, because it was only with "side at side" to lvl up the npc). I was probably allways 1-2 seconds to fast with the switch (because the mp regenerated over time and not with action).

The mp change should be positiv, because that scenario shouldnt happen anymore (maybe only in the very first lvl areas, when you only have 1-2 ice soul ready).

Most likely yes. In that area you tend to keep Foul for ice phase if you want to max Thunder dot duration and only use it in fire phase, if the next Polyglot charge is approaching completion - essentially Stormblood gameplay.

Below Lv70 it is actually okay to Blizzard I, Blizzard IV twice or ice Scathe if you don't want to overwrite Thunder dots early.

Wow the amount of toxic peole that dont understand how the job works but are just happy the blackmages are upset is nuts. In the jp forums this is a lot more nuanced. No wonder they dont care about the english forums.