Thread: Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I took a careful look at Rinon's Youtube video about the Dawntrail Black Mage and noticed that Fire III deals ~13k damage when cast from neutral state, and then that Blizzard III deals around 13k damage when cast to swap from AF3 to UI3, and then that Fire III deals around 13k again when cast to swap from UI3 back to AF3.

This indicates to me that the Aspect Mastery III tooltip is probably not misleading, and once you're level 35 or above, you don't actually suffer a damage penalty for casting opposite-element spells. This means that Transpose-Firestarter isn't a damage gain (or a damage loss) compared to just using Firestarter procs in the same astral cycle that you generate them. I have to assume there's still some sort of typo or accidental deletion in the base Aspect Mastery tooltip, though, because it'd be very silly for AF to be all-downside until level 20 or whatever it is.

If this is true, then yeah, transpose-firestarter is still a damage loss. But it's because you're losing +70 percentage points from the opportunity cost of chasing +10% damage instead of AF3's +80% damage. The opportunity cost of holding it is harmful, especially since it's fire 4 neutral at AF3. It's still not all downside, it's still +10% when at AF1, but yeah, they basically harmed BLM heavily below 20, and further reinforces the thought that BLM is in desperate need of a leveling rework. Personally, the fire 4 rotation needs to be dropped from 60 to 35 (without using fire 4 here,) and in the process it'd be pretty easy to just pare down skills, modernize the design, and build it back up with other, newer skills.

Originally Posted by wildvenonat

The funniest/saddest part of this is that Triplecast is ... a level 66 ability, which appears to be unchanged! In all content through ARR and HW, Black Mage has their single use of Swiftcast and nothing else, which is now going to need to be used for MP regen in dungeon pulls.

Black Mage having no MP in Baelsar's Wall and St Mocianne's Arboretum and Dun Scaith. Absolutely brilliant.

You have no idea the amount of times I wind up in a HW dungeon and just forget I don't have triplecast... Speaking of leveling reworks, seeing triplecast dropped to a lower level would be great. Would also give the class some much-needed mobility in ARR, especially in reworked dungeons that follow's EW's anti-caster fight design principles. At least, in HW, the class was designed around only one swiftcast and actually performed well in HW content. Even back with ye olde enochian. Except nidhogg ex. Man HW BLM sucked on nidhogg ex...

Originally Posted by Taranok

If this is true, then yeah, transpose-firestarter is still a damage loss. But it's because you're losing +70 percentage points from the opportunity cost of chasing +10% damage instead of AF3's +80% damage. The opportunity cost of holding it is harmful, especially since it's fire 4 neutral at AF3. It's still not all downside, it's still +10% when at AF1, but yeah, they basically harmed BLM heavily below 20, and further reinforces the thought that BLM is in desperate need of a leveling rework. Personally, the fire 4 rotation needs to be dropped from 60 to 35 (without using fire 4 here,) and in the process it'd be pretty easy to just pare down skills, modernize the design, and build it back up with other, newer skills.

I'm not sure I follow your math here. If AF1 is +40% fire damage and AF3 is +80% fire damage, but UI3 is +0% fire damage, then an AF3 Firestarter + UI3 Fire III should come out to the same average potency as an AF1 Firestarter. 1.8 + 1.0 over 2 GCDs instead of 1.4 over one GCD, right? Transpose into Firestarter would allow you to slightly manage how soon or later future astral/umbral cycles change but shouldn't give you extra damage.

Removing things from Job Classes that added nuance and personal engagement doesn't sound like progress and refinement to me.

Keep yapping it's fine, at the end of the day non-standard was axed for a good reason. Why would I understand what black mage needs to function properly at that level? I don't play it because I know that the non-standard meta exists and I'll never be optimal as it is.

I said that rotations shouldn't be the difficult aspect of the game and that encounters should be. I said also "or have done it so many times that it's all muscle memory for them and they're out of touch with what the game's difficulty really is." The current standard rotation isn't the meta.

What I shouldn't really do is engage with crybabies who are stuck in the past.

I have seen HikariKurosawa on other job forum threads also and he is the same there talking as if he knows what he is talking about but actually doesnt. From what I can see I doubt he has ever tried to learn a rotation. And what this player wants is be able to play as good as high end raiders without the effort learning any sort of rotation. For those that are wondering the closest hes done to high end content is set one foot into extemes at the start of the expac and a bit of uwu "most likely damage carried" eventhough enrage does not exist in old ultimates.

"E.G:Rotations should feel good to execute and be consistent. You should have a clearly defined execution to master, and you should expect yourself to master it through enough repetition." and... no he has not done this.

So my advice is just ignore this clown.

And my prediction is that he will not even play BLM in any battle content after all of this.

I will wait to see what happens to BLM in 8.0 since ive been hoping jobs since the start of EW due to poor job design decisions and isnt anything new to me.

What are you talking?

First:
Is his quote right.

The most important thing is, that the rotation feels good for you. All other things are meaningless, if it doesnt feel right to you and make it harder.
There is no sense in trying, to follow are very strict order of skills, who has to be used in a fixed number, when it doesnt suit you.

Like exampe: Practicly every guide to BLM stated, that you has to use 4xfire,paradox, fire4 again until the mp is low, despair, in between maybe fire3, mana front, fire 4 again and than despair again. Maybe even Xenoglosie in between.
It is the rotation that makes the most dmg and the highest use of your mp. But, the timer feels to strickt for me. I prefer to only use 3x fire4, and than paradox, when im around 6s left oif the timer, simply, because it feels more safe to me.

Similary thing Drg. Who is even more busier, by using gcd and ogcd in between of each other other. So, that you can use as many skills as possible in a short amount of time.
It is maybe the best way from the numbers. But the feeling of you let you maybe choice to use the high jump, mirage dive, geirskogul combo in one row, without other skills in between, because its easier for you to press the3 skills in that way. And feels more naturaly to you.

Aside of that:
What is that BS, that his opinuion is called meanin gless, only, because of the stuff he was in yet?
Doing solo content, or normal dungeons has the same value, as doing the highest content. Esspecialy, when the hardest content is stuff, that not everyone can enter or likes to enter it (i was never in a Ultimate raid, because: I never had a group for it and, because i never had interesst in it, the name alone let it sound to be a worthless pain in the ..., who is to hard with to less of a good reward, for trying it).
A lot of the players are probably adults or late teens, who has to work or to learn stuff. And maybe dont want to work that hard or using up the time so much, for doing things, that dont make fun to them. Or, they have problems with entering groups activily, and are so keeped out of the group stuff.

Originally Posted by Keichi

What are you talking?

First:
Is his quote right.

The most important thing is, that the rotation feels good for you. All other things are meaningless, if it doesnt feel right to you and make it harder.
There is no sense in trying, to follow are very strict order of skills, who has to be used in a fixed number, when it doesnt suit you.

Like exampe: Practicly every guide to BLM stated, that you has to use 4xfire,paradox, fire4 again until the mp is low, despair, in between maybe fire3, mana front, fire 4 again and than despair again. Maybe even Xenoglosie in between.
It is the rotation that makes the most dmg and the highest use of your mp. But, the timer feels to strickt for me. I prefer to only use 3x fire4, and than paradox, when im around 6s left oif the timer, simply, because it feels more safe to me.

Similary thing Drg. Who is even more busier, by using gcd and ogcd in between of each other other. So, that you can use as many skills as possible in a short amount of time.
It is maybe the best way from the numbers. But the feeling of you let you maybe choice to use the high jump, mirage dive, geirskogul combo in one row, without other skills in between, because its easier for you to press the3 skills in that way. And feels more naturaly to you.

Aside of that:
What is that BS, that his opinuion is called meanin gless, only, because of the stuff he was in yet?
Doing solo content, or normal dungeons has the same value, as doing the highest content. Esspecialy, when the hardest content is stuff, that not everyone can enter or likes to enter it (i was never in a Ultimate raid, because: I never had a group for it and, because i never had interesst in it, the name alone let it sound to be a worthless pain in the ..., who is to hard with to less of a good reward, for trying it).
A lot of the players are probably adults or late teens, who has to work or to learn stuff. And maybe dont want to work that hard or using up the time so much, for doing things, that dont make fun to them. Or, they have problems with entering groups activily, and are so keeped out of the group stuff.

You do understand that you will be actively punished for your "preferred" rotation after these changes right? You HAVE to use 6 F4 in a fire cycle to do the finisher. This change will negatively impact you more than it will any of us players that have done the hardest content on this job. We are all easily capable of doing the standard rotation. We just like the added challenge and fun of doing nonstandard to optimize our dps. This change will raise the skill floor (make it harder for you) while lower the skill ceiling (make it less fun for us). There are no winners with this change. The job is strictly worse in every way.

Originally Posted by MimaMeouri

You do understand that you will be actively punished for your "preferred" rotation after these changes right? You HAVE to use 6 F4 in a fire cycle to do the finisher. This change will negatively impact you more than it will any of us players that have done the hardest content on this job. We are all easily capable of doing the standard rotation. We just like the added challenge and fun of doing nonstandard to optimize our dps. This change will raise the skill floor (make it harder for you) while lower the skill ceiling (make it less fun for us). There are no winners with this change. The job is strictly worse in every way.

I have never struggled with standard black mage rotation. If it is harder, then that is good for you and fine for me. I don't really think that it's going to be harder for anyone who can consistently pull off the standard rotation though. The "you" and "me" language you're using is so cringe lol. Maybe you're just incapable of playing the job as intended and non-standard is what makes it work for you?

Yeah Im convinced they're just the obviously forum troll at this point. Don't mind the rotation struggle they have more struggle with using their 2 mins