Complete MCH change…

[MikkoAkure]

I think everyone is veering off coarse here. I believe the main idea from OP is. MCH doesn’t satisfy the gunslinger fantasy but it does provide a MCH fantasy. So they should make a gun focused job but SE said that they won’t since we have MCH. The problem with that is MCH doesn’t do that it has a different niche it’s giving. So a solution if you don’t want two gun jobs is remove the gun just the gun from MCH and give them something that keenly appeals to the MCH fantasy. Then give us a job that focuses on the gun fantasy

The problem with this is, is that there’s only so many things you can do with a gun. I think archer just having multiple variations on “shoot arrow but slightly different” is what made Yoshi tie bard into it instead of ranger and why we got the heated animations for shooting thrown in.

Machinist feels more whole from a class fantasy standpoint now that it has the classic machinist tool abilities from FFVI. The current job’s problem is, is that I think the gameplay designers need to make the kit more cohesive because right now the wildfire mechanic, the standard 1-2-3 rotation, and the tool weapon skills don’t feel like interact well enough except to build up charge for some oGCD spam and the glorified DoT.

I think the machine tools have a place with MCH, but I think the whole kit needs to be incorporated better. On top of that, I think MCH’s place among the other ranged physical DPS needs to be more clearly delineated. If it’s supposed to be the “selfish” DPS, then it needs to be more powerful to a point where it would be worth taking at the same level as a bard or dancer. Throwing yet another gun class into the mix would only make it all worse.

[Roda]

Yeah, while i'm not a big gun-user in my fantasy games, I can appreciate being annoyed that your skills don't interact with your equipped weapon. As someone who plays primarily casters in mmos, I do get annoyed in, say, WoW when my mage just has their staff on their back while they're casting their spells.

Like, I know a part of the machinist fantasy is having a bunch of gadgets and doo-dahs to play around with but... If only there were types of machines that you could set up to act semi-autonomously and maintain while you're using your chosen signature weapon....

[Vatom]

The problem with this is, is that there’s only so many things you can do with a gun. I think archer just having multiple variations on “shoot arrow but slightly different” is what made Yoshi tie bard into it instead of ranger and why we got the heated animations for shooting thrown in.

I mean one Viper exist now and idk about everyone else but I love it’s concept. Kinda sword saint like. Two idk why everyone thinks a simple concept is a bad concept, have you ever considered that too much complexity can cause confusion. I have that’s why MCH is fight for identity as to being a shooty shooty bang bang or a tinkerer. Also they are many MMOs that did this very concept and people play it. Now if you asking for an X factor for the job to stand out other then it’s gun. That’s just brainstorming, have a gauge that when maxed you combing your guns into a sniper rifle and shoot a big aoe (saz), have the jackpot roller like and if you get 777 give your party a random buff (FFVII), take the old reload mech from MCH and give it to them so every shot is enhanced with something. I could go on and on and no this isn’t my concept I thought of just spitballing. Personally I think bards weapons should be instruments , they have the models. Make ranger have a bow and a giant crossbow on their back. It’s not redundant it’s a lack of imagination and direction, which is why we’re here now. We tried MCH in HW hope for a cool gun class. We tired in StB when they gave us flippy dippy, We tried in StB when they gave us broken HC, We tried when they gave us automaton Queen. It’s not a gunslinger it’s a Machinist. So ask for a different fantasy that has had a foothold in FF universe isn’t much and saying well they have a gun already isn’t a good enough excuse anymore. Especially when you see other characters do the things we ask for. I’m not saying break MCH but if them having a gun is what’s stopping us from a gunslinger I think I rather you move that barrier.

[Vatom]

Sorry I should have clean that up more

[A-Omega]

The problem with this is, is that there’s only so many things you can do with a gun. I think archer just having multiple variations on “shoot arrow but slightly different” is what made Yoshi tie bard into it instead of ranger and why we got the heated animations for shooting thrown in..

There isn’t many things you can do with a gun? You say that when Hollywood literally just made gun-fu a thing. Yes the gun fantasy is one of the oldest ones steaming way back to the old day westerns, but it’s alive and well. MCH is poof of that, because they wouldn’t have made a job with a gun any other way. The real problem is they didn’t flush out the original fantasy with creativity when mch was presented. Since then, we had an amazing display of what could and SHOULD have been. Merlwyb’s showcase was everything anyone wanting a gun job could dream of. Unfortunately SE got hung up on the technical side of things (a gun is an machine) and lost sight of what the expectation and fun actually is.

You also mentioned brd. That’s another prime example of exactly what I’m talking about. Archers are one of mmo/rpg/fantasy mainstay archetypes. SE didn’t/doesn’t know how to approach range jobs so they mashed bard with archer. It’s a shame really. When you think of bow wielder, you don’t think of someone breaking out into song…you think of Legolas rapid firing arrows at some big elephant thing. Now if you picked up ff14 with the hopes of recreating Legolas, you gotta forget that fantasy. So yes…SE killed the bow fantasy as well by melding two totally different concepts together. Just like gun welders, when you see an enemy using a bow, they aren’t breaking out into a ballad…they’re firing arrows. Brd should have access to all the instruments in the game (not a hybrid bow/guitar) and do acoustic damage while using performances as buffs. By merging archetypes, something is always going to suffer. Again…you can’t say there isn’t anything to special about bow play when every new skill is spectacle of arrow use.

Sorry…I totally disagree with you here.

[A-Omega]

Also…because of the way the jobs play, you can’t play without the songs to get a real archer experience. Your kit and damage revolve around the song mechanic just like MCHs can’t choose to focus on gunplay alone. To be fair, BRD is far less offensive as MCH in terms of fantasy aesthetics. The only real complaint I have there is the job gear. I’ve never been a fan of the flamboyant hats and thigh high boots.