Astrologian changes feedback

[Kissune]

I don't get that sense. It was already gutted, this seems like them walking it back and putting flavor back in to me. Every card being balance was boring.

Maybe, but at least they were recognizable as cards. You had to actually react to the ones you got and think about where they went. This is just aetherflow with a new coat of paint and more restrictive usages. Which means in basically every fight you know where they're going to go without any kind of on the fly decision making. And without a way to burn cards you don't need for damage like SCH you're going to be overwriting or just throwing away cards a lot considering most fights won't require crazy amounts of healing/mitigation or the casuals will get mad.

[RodP]

Thank you all for the support in general, it feels good knowing people feel the same way.

What you have shown is not cards. There might still be draw in the game, there might still be play in the game, there might still be minor arcana but these are not cards. They don't evoke the feeling of mastering your reaction and on the fly planning, they don't make me feel like I'm moving and shifting cards around to get them in the right place at the right time, they feel like the exact same mitigation and healing buttons every healer has been working with since its inception. Like... Astrologian used to be about using your cards in the best way for any possible outcome of draw. Now? The LL talked so much about having 'the perfect card for the situation', when that could not be further from the truth. Instead, you're just trying to find the situation for the card. A card that heals is no different than lustrate. A card that mitigates is no different than aquaveil. A card that amps healing is no different than krasis. Because they're predictable, and streamlined, and duller than ever.

That's exactly how it feels. It doesn't feel like cards, it feels like one damage buff, one defense buff and a heal every minute, I want a fast-pace buffer, you already have shields and heals in the rest of the kit and other healers have access to that, we need something more unique for the cards.

Cards aside, fishing for a 5% personal damage buff won't be missed.

100% agree, that needed to go, but I think this is worse.

I don't get that sense. It was already gutted, this seems like them walking it back and putting flavor back in to me. Every card being balance was boring.

I agree that every card giving damage is boring, but at least it was fast and complex, and the new ones seem to be balance, (old) bole and... A heal? That's beyond boring, we have plenty of that already.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't get that sense. It was already gutted, this seems like them walking it back and putting flavor back in to me. Every card being balance was boring.

This isn't making Cards not just Balance, though. It's removing Cards and then limiting a selection of irrelevant utility CDs to alternations between Ladynix and Lordhamut, with mere "Card" skins.

[KanataNanaya]

I don't get that sense. It was already gutted, this seems like them walking it back and putting flavor back in to me. Every card being balance was boring.

It was boring for sure, but once you put DT card into realistic situation, you went from 6 balance to 2 balance and 4 duds.
Up to extreme trials, i don't think you can ever use all of your healing tools, ever. especially when there's a 2nd healer with you.
From Savage and up, you might get uses out of it for prog when people make too much mistakes, but even then, in most cases, you dont. because too much mistakes means wipe anyway. no amount of 10% mit or 1000 potency insta heal gonna cover all of that.

I loved Boles, ewer and Spire back in the day, they were duds but they have their uses, and if you dont need it you can still change it to something else, like royal road or raw damage.
Now? I bet you can safely remove the MIT/Heal cards play buttons from your keyboard and do everything on par with top players doing other jobs.

because like it or not, throwing a card out is still one animation, GCD or oGCD. you are still losing a malefic. Overheal/mit is still a bad thing to do.'

edit: tbh though? Except the "half of your unique kit is useless" part? assuming potency is on par:
DT card = 2 balance every 120s is kindda better than 1 balance every 30s. because they are both boring as hell. DT is just less often than the EW cards.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

I found the sleeve draw and redraw in SHB kept astro fun for me due to the fast paced gameplay. Astrodyne and the removal of sleeve draw and redraw charges killed AST for me in EW after we already lost the more interesting cards in SB, the job became just frustrating and boring to me.

Every card being just damage is boring imo, I like that we can draw cards that do different things again and I hope that we get some skills back that interact with our cards again. I would love SB cards back but since we can't seem to get those back as they were I am happier with this iteration than EW one by far. I hope in future they add more abilities to interact with the cards again. I enjoyed those a lot. I also enjoy the more proactive approach you take to healing with ast as opposed to whm. Cooking your spells and letting it go off a fraction of a second after the damage comes out is always satisfying to me. More of that would be cool too. It feels more thoughtful than WHM.

[Kamishawe]

I swear CBU3's choices for Astro are bizarre.

I admire what they're trying to do. It solves the huge gaps between different factions of Astro capable people and the variable output of Astro.

However, I think the core design of the cards is broken and they need to reboot it like Summoner. It's suppose to be a buffing class?! So, why does EVERY iteration of the card system feel worse than a Bargain Bin dancer?

The biggest core problem is literally the Solo "1 card per person" system and it's potency being less than a fraction similar to any other equivalent in the game. The current system is also at the expense of individual weaving capability of each Astro, so most Astros are losing gcd time because of tab target switching, especially on consoles.

So it begs my question : Why isn't Astro set-up as any version of a group buff system? Eliminating the problem of tab/target switching between cards and people and boosting Astros overall party utility?

Given Astros skills w/o the cards, a Party Reduction Card makes more sense given Astros literal list of solo reduction skills. So does a Party GCD Haste Card or Party Movement Card as a card option. A unique one can be group Esuna given the op amounts of bleeds this expansion. You want party dps? Boost Divination. Dps cards is asking for trouble.

In today's fast paced raiding scene, "Solo" party cards doesn't make sense to me anymore.

I applaud that choice of trashing the old class buffing options. A one at a time rng draw system w 6 possible iterations and a 3 sticker personal rng buff being dependent on that rng option was cringe.

At this point in Party Buffs and Helpfulness, Astro has the mimicry of virtually nothing. Now I'm not saying turning Astro into a dps heavy hitting buffing equivalent of Bard or Dancer.

I'm saying, if your going to give Astros a fighting chance against other healers as a remotely streamlined buff healer that's designed for casuals, why are you still clinging to arbitrary systems that is essentially lobotomizing the class?

I can tell you right now, for all the good changes coming to Astro, it will not change them being the overall worst played healer, worst liked job, and worst dps of all classes.

I think every end-game Astro would literally dump using the cards because of the tab-switching system if it wasn't essential to activating alternative skills. Getting rid of Astrodyne and stickers just means they changed the alternative reward.

This is coming from someone who absolutely adores end-game Astro and plays with other Astros and we are all actually good at the class.

[Kamishawe]

I PUT THIS IN AN ACTUAL THREAD : REDIRECT HERE--> https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...56#post6465456

Switch the Single Cards to Party Cards. It would be a literal game changer to not deal with the tab-targeting system outside of what healers already do for spot healing or mit application.

Please remember names are place holders, and descriptions are not exact and merely convey concepts and ideas. I would LOVE to see other thoughts and suggestions that play into alternatives they haven’t done yet or would be cool to explore. I'm specifically being general because I'm not the devs, I would think THEY know better than anyone in the community what is best if they take any suggestions from the community and how best to apply them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Draw Timer: 1 set of 4 RNG cards, 40s timer. 3 sets in 120s = 12 playable cards (aka BRD Song Times)
New Skill: Card Sacrifice: Active until executed or 60s has passed. Discard/reject any 3 cards for a bigger personal dps return. Not executing before 60s Duration is loss of those cards and any potential gain.
- In 120s, 0:3:6 of 12 cards could be sacrificed if you don't like them.
- aka Misery equivalent on a timer
- Astro Unique Chance: Leave behind card after-images and execute is BLU Trident with cards.


Damage Slot Options

• Balance Card: X% Party Crit Chance Increase
• Arrow Card: X% Party GCD Haste
• Sun Card: Party Reflect : 1x hit
  Mini-Macro - dps aspect only
  Astro Unique

Utility Slot Options

• Ewer Card: Y% Party MP Recovery
• Spire Card: Y% Party Movement Speed + Lost Action Re-raise
  Astro Unique: Time Stop from the Tower of Zot : re-raise= Frozen #s. Party Wipe: all dead/frozen.
• Moon Card: Party Debuff Cleanser
  aka BRD The Warden's Paean but party-wide
  Astro Unique

Heal Slot Options

• Bole Card: Z% Party Damage Reduction
• Spear Card: Z% Party Passive Health Recovery Increase
• Eclipse Card: Party Stack of Time Reverse
  Mini-Macro - heal aspect only aka Lily Bell/Panhaima.
  Astro Unique

Court Slot Cards: Personal Cards 1 in 4 rng chance

• Lord of Crowns: current iteration of Flat DPS Damage
• Lady of Crowns: current iteration of Flat Party Heal
• Lady of Stars: Astrodyne#3 buff: Speed UP, Heal potency up, DPS UP
• Lord of Stars: X% of all personal dps in buff window applied to enemy at end duration. (aka MCH Wildfire)

General:

• Boost Divination (Party Buff) by 2% and get rid of all % DPS cards.
• Trash Prerequisite : Aspected Helios activates Neutral Sect.
  Maybe convert Neutral Sect to similar "SGE Holos" Raw Shield with secondary activation like "SCH Emergency Tactics" Raw heal conversion.
• Trash Prerequisite : Helios (any kind) triggers extended Horoscope but keep Extended and early execution.
• Trash All Solo Cards requiring Draw-> Alt-Target-> Play-> Re-target aspects.
• Redraw : keep to "reshuffle" only none played cards in a hand.

About RNG: I personally vote keep rng because I adore it; however, I don't think anyone would care as long as every card opportunity is beneficial to more than just one random person.

[glamazon]

If I COULD make a suggestion to Square and they'd ever read it... Switch the Single vs Aoe Roles of Regular Cards and the Court Cards. It would be a literal game changer to deal with the tab-targeting system as little as possible out side of what healers already do for spot healing or mit application.

Suggestions:

Name Card = X% Party Crit Chance Increase
Name Card = Y% Party Movement Speed
Name Card = Z% Party Passive Health Recovery Increase

Name Card = X% Party Damage Reduction
Name Card = Y% Party MP Recovery
name Card = Z% Party GCD Haste

Name Card = Party Debuff Cleanser
Name Card = Party 1-time Party hit - Reflect Damage Back (mini Macrocosmos)
Name Card = Party Stack of Heal Regen "Lilies Bells/Panhaima"

Crown Cards : 1 in 3 rng chance
Lord of Crowns = Personal current iteration of Flat damage
Lady of Crowns = Personal current iteration of Flat Party Heal
Joker of Crowns = Personal Old Astrodyne #3 buff : Speed UP, Heal potency up, DPS UP

General :

Boost Divination (Party Buff) by 2% and get rid of all general % DPS cards.
Trash Prerequisite : Aspected Helios activates Neutral Sect.
Trash Prerequisite : Helios (any kind) triggers extended Horoscope.
Trash All Solo Cards requiring Draw-> Alt-Target-> Play-> Re-target aspects.

About RNG : I don't think anyone gives a damn about rng as long as every card opportunity is beneficial to everyone and not just one random person. Even if you take my party card suggestion and made it a set of 3 rng draw card system of 9 possible cards, no one would care because they're all beneficial to everyone.

I like this especially if you make some of them reactive so that they activate when the trigger ie a debuff lands on party member so the debuff cleanser activates.

[Kamishawe]

I like this especially if you make some of them reactive so that they activate when the trigger ie a debuff lands on party member so the debuff cleanser activates.

I got the idea of "Party Debuff Cleanser" from Bard's, "The Warden's Paean", which is still the only other debuff cleanser in the game, other than healers' "Esuna".

"The Warden's Paean" is also a delayed solo activation buff if it's applied to a person currently w/o a debuff. I'm really hoping they'll pick up the idea and run with it as a new unique identity trait of Astro since Sage is getting a Dot spread, which boooo. I understand SGE has more utility for it but SCH should have got that because dah... old SMN.

[Sani2341]

Well I for one, am currently cautiously pessimistic about the rewwork.

If there's some really nice and interesting interactions between the kit and cards that were not explained yet, that make the new cards more engaging than just "3 oGCDs on a shared cooldown" there might be Something interesting there still.

But considering SE's track record, I shall assume this is not actually the case until proven otherwise.