Summoner Issues & Player Feedback

[Khryseis_Astra]

That "bahamut's" way out of left field. Is this like a random request by someone in the dev team? Would really like to know the logic behind this.

I love Bahamut in general, and this one is cool-looking, but personally I was kinda hoping for Shinryu if it was going to be another dragon. lol I’m sure that would’ve gotten some groans and complaints too though!

But yeah, the ones I’ve seen requested the most for a demi are Alexander and Odin… they pull things from other FF games all the time, that’s part of the nostalgia factor for veterans of the series. But I don’t think I ever saw anyone requesting this one…

[ShadowNyx3]

I think as a foundation it served a good purpose until you realize how much potential the kit had but they focused on the wrong thing first (adding a demi in the form of bahamut2? but I digress)

If you realize that if you would have added just 1 additional gemshine summon into the mix, you could have already shaken the decisionmaking within the fixed 1 minute window: Do I fully use 3 gem summons? do I use all 4 of them but which one would you cut short? Or even have Shiva being one gemshine phase you cannot get out of until it's completely over due to the method of summoning being different - so many options! After that you add the 5th and 6th gem summon, each time expanding the possibilities even further

On top of that, you could introduce each gem summon to give an astral or umbral seal which will determine the demi summoning outcome like:
3 Astral nodes --> Bahamut
3 Umbral nodes --> Phoenix
2 A / 1 U nodes --> Odin
2 U / 1 A nodes --> Alexander

this idea alone would basically carry you as buildingblock until 10.0 as you can easily expand it which not only gives you even more summoning but also high decision making depening on the situation you're in as you suddenly not only have a variance in how many gemshine summons you summon but on what demi you ultimately want next in the line, all hopefully serving a different flavour while being identical in damage

It's honestly so insulting to see this kind of potential they have sitting there for this job and they just refuse to put any effort into it. Like all they could be bothered to do for this entire new expansion is shove a new Bahamut animation into the exact same current rotation and one additional button press for the 2 minute window. Absolute laziness and lack of pride in their own game.


Your idea is spot on though and something I've thought of too since I first saw the EW rotation. Adding the three egis everyone's been begging for for 8 years allows us to use the lore-based Umbral/Astral designation to pop big Demi Summons which is just a vastly more engaging job mechanic than "chose first egi, choose second egi, repeat same buttons for one minute."

[SieyaM]

While I find solar Bahamut visually appealing, I don't think adding in yet another demi summon was a great idea for this expansion. The only difference between it and our regular Bahamut seems to be whatever that ability is they use after Bahamut has left, and I honestly can't tell what its supposed to do. There was a real oppurtunity here to add more to the SMN job and really fill it out but we seem to have gotten very little other than a new fester, whatever that follow up was to Ruin III and another demi phase of a summon we already have. I was also really hoping to leave Ruin III behind, I am so sick of seeing and hearing it.

[Ephremjlm]

Meanwhile 22 years ago..........



List of all 22 FFXI Summons:

AVATARS:
1. Carbuncle
2. Fenrir
3. Ifrit
4. Titan
5. Leviathan
6. Garuda
7. Shiva
8. Ramuh
9. Diabolos
10. Cait Sith
11. Siren
12. Atomos
13. Alexander
14. Odin

ELEMENTALS:
1. Fire Spirit
2. Ice Spirit
3. Air Spirit
4. Earth Spirit
5. Thunder Spirit
6. Water Spirit
7. Light Spirit
8. Dark Spirit

[rawker]

Don't forget, they are pets. We have full control of the Avatars while the Elementals have their own AI, like how the Automaton Queen/Esteem acts on its own, minus the timed duration.

[MagiusNecros]

Strange timeline we live in when Blue Mage is more Summoner then Summoner. And Summoner is more a Draconic Sorcerer. 6 summons as opposed to 19 is kind of a sad joke.

Blue Mage Summon Attack list

Song of Torment - Siren
Feather Rain - Garuda
Eruption - Ifrit
Mountain Buster - Titan
Shock Strike - Ramuh
Glass Dance - Shiva
Veil of the Whorl - Leviathan
Perpetual Ray - Alexander
Surpanakha - Ravana
Quasar - The Goddess
J Kick - Brute Justice
Cold Fog - Mist Dragon
Stotram - Lakshmi
Chelonian Gate - Genbu
Choco Meteor - Chocobo
Phantom Flurry - Suzaku
Nightbloom - Tsukuyomi
Being Mortal - Titania
Dimensional Shift - Eden

I really think if SMN got Mist Dragon(iconic FF4 only summon) or Valefor(iconic FF10 summon) people would of been happy. If they really wanted to do another Bahamut they should of had us get regular Bahamut in Stormblood, Neo Bahamut in Shadowbringers, Bahamut Zero in Endwalker and then Solar Bahamut in Dawntrail.

What we should of got: 2nd set of gem summons with Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan with a Capstone summon that would of been a XIV original or Odin or Alexander.

What we got: Bahamut Glamour.

Feels like they phoned it in for Dawntrail. And then they throw in Moogle and Madeen to Pictomancer for extra measure.

[LittleArrow]

Sure... let's ignore FFXI SMN exists. It is a pet job. The egis of ARR up to HW is expected as you do not expect to summon primals at 50. They started with Bahamut at 70. I was fine with that but no.. they made the egis and carbuncle do nothing. Took out the pet management and then the disrespect up to DT. It is not acceptable. If you didn't like the pet management, it's fine.. but rejoicing to the point they removed it and then give a blanket statement of feeling sorry for people who thoroughly enjoyed old summoner is just insulting. If you truly are sorry you will not follow up with a shallow statement of feeling sorry and just keep your praising of the new summoner.

Edit.. btw, before being able to summon the big ones, you have elemental spirits you have no control of what they cast, have atrocious perpetuation costs and the only thing you could summon that isn't an elemental spirit was.... Carbuncle. You fight with Carbuncle in the trials to be able to summon Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda, etc... that's what's expected in FFXIV... but no.. this gutted version of SMN is clearly a downgrade... oh wait Yuna on FFX also summons Aeons as pets. Funny

My only praise of the the removal of XIV's old summoner was the dot mechanic. I agree with your statement though, that a blanket statement like removal of other aspects of the job then add an apology at the end is insulting. That's not my intention as I am genuinely sad to see anyone lose a job that they had fun with as I experienced that during iterations of XIV's job streamline / update as well. I didn't mean to say there were no positives to the old XIV summoner, just that I truly do detest the dots from the old job being tacked onto the very traditional / classic job of FF Summoner. Even in that, I completely concede that's a closeminded / old way of thinking. There could definitely be ways bring in new additions to the traditional class that I would never have thought of as "summoner." I think a better statement would be, I want to see the traditional summoner first (all the summons, not just a bahamut mage) before seeing them adjust what I have seen as classic summoner. Probably an even better statement would be to see both at the same time. Either way, just some thoughts out loud.

I loved FFXI summoner for the era that was in. Of course, that idea would need to be updated, and there have been so many exceptional posts in this thread alone that could do that. I truly hope SE is listening, because this thread along with the others in response to the job trailer alone could truly make this job shine.

[LittleArrow]

I think as a foundation it served a good purpose until you realize how much potential the kit had but they focused on the wrong thing first (adding a demi in the form of bahamut2? but I digress)

If you realize that if you would have added just 1 additional gemshine summon into the mix, you could have already shaken the decisionmaking within the fixed 1 minute window: Do I fully use 3 gem summons? do I use all 4 of them but which one would you cut short? Or even have Shiva being one gemshine phase you cannot get out of until it's completely over due to the method of summoning being different - so many options! After that you add the 5th and 6th gem summon, each time expanding the possibilities even further

On top of that, you could introduce each gem summon to give an astral or umbral seal which will determine the demi summoning outcome like:
3 Astral nodes --> Bahamut
3 Umbral nodes --> Phoenix
2 A / 1 U nodes --> Odin
2 U / 1 A nodes --> Alexander

this idea alone would basically carry you as buildingblock until 10.0 as you can easily expand it which not only gives you even more summoning but also high decision making depening on the situation you're in as you suddenly not only have a variance in how many gemshine summons you summon but on what demi you ultimately want next in the line, all hopefully serving a different flavour while being identical in damage

Such an amazing idea! I would love to see this added to smn.

[SargeTheSeagull]

As a 3.0-5.58 summoner enjoyer I’ll throw this out there: Bringing DoT management back to summoner would add so much more for the devs to build on it’s insane. Dots and Levi/shiva/ramuh would as well. Examples:

Tri-disaster costs an aetherflow and applies both dots.

Shiva gets one astral flow ability and it freezes the duration of your DoTs but they keep dealing damage.

Leviathan’s tidal wave spreads dots to nearby enemies.

One of Ramuh’s spells consumes DoT’s durations but grants you an aetherflow.

Reapplying your DoT’s while Phoenix is out causes each tick of DoT damage to heal the party for a tiny bit.

Using tridisaster while bahamut is out amplifies their damage.

Manually reapplying your dots while solar bahamut is out causes each of SB’s attacks to grant you an aetherflow.

Titan’s attacks deal extra damage if your main target isn’t under the effect of your DoT’s.

Basic stuff like that wouldn’t meaningfully increase the skill floor but would tremendously raise the skill ceiling. These would keep the current job fantasy and core gameplay intact while bringing back elements that old enjoyers of summoner loved.

[My77rh]

I am a new player, but I started with Summoner about 4 months ago and it did disappoint me a little when Y'mitra mentioned Ramuh-egi, but we didn't get that.