Positionals vs Damage over Time

[RyuuZero]

I actually agree with the general sentiment of this thread.

yeah the thread kinda drifted off from Positionals vs DoTs what would you remove?

Yet another thread on positionals with non-melee mains arguing for their removal.

You calling me a non-melee main? I beat Patch Day Vishap and T9 as NIN when they were relevant ^^ and after I beat 4.0 as PLD in Early Access, I've gone SAM and never looked back.

The entire point of positionals is to hit them all, not most of them. If they were removed, melee would just be completely static until mechanics forced them to move.

well.. True North lets me hit all Positionals and I'd argue without positionals mechanics could be made even more spicy without stressing the player to hit rear or flank.

if I would change things Melee (well most melee) would have instead of flank/rear a dot/burst or buff/burst combo.. let's remember that Aeolian Edge used to be an Omnipositional Combo Finisher^^

[Aco505]

You calling me a non-melee main? I beat Patch Day Vishap and T9 as NIN when they were relevant ^^ and after I beat 4.0 as PLD in Early Access, I've gone SAM and never looked back.

Sometimes also melee mains do this as well, mind you, but the question that we must always ask ourselves is: would melee get something in return if positionals were removed?

The answer is no.

well.. True North lets me hit all Positionals and I'd argue without positionals mechanics could be made even more spicy without stressing the player to hit rear or flank.

if I would change things Melee (well most melee) would have instead of flank/rear a dot/burst or buff/burst combo.. let's remember that Aeolian Edge used to be an Omnipositional Combo Finisher^^

Try hitting all positionals in an ultimate, P3S, P5S, P11S or Criterion dungeons without True North. It's simply impossible no matter how well you greed.

The point of True North is not to invalidate them but to cover for when you cannot hit them. The devs cannot and will not accommodate each fight just because of positionals and that's where player ingenuity and True North come forth. If they did design mechanics with that in mind, bosses would be even more static than they are now already in many fights.

[SeverianLyonesse]

yeah the thread kinda drifted off from Positionals vs DoTs what would you remove?

I wouldn't remove either.

I would make positionals more job-specific as mentioned in my previous post. SAM (front), MNK (front/flanking), DRG (flanking), RPR (5 yalms), NIN (rear), VPR (rear/flanking). Mostly to remove senseless samey positional dancing.

And I would also keep DoTs, with particular emphasis on returning them as a major component to key job fantasy damage dealing: BRD, SGE/SCH (but not both), DRK (is almost the DoT tank and needs more identity), VPR (flavor begs for it). Of the casters, I would either make RDM or SMN a DoT mage, probably SMN to recapture some of the lost SCH warlock identity.

I think pushing the idea that we need to sacrifice one or the other is already poor framing.

[RyuuZero]

Positionals vs DoTs what would you remove?

I wouldn't remove either.

let me rephrase my question, If you had to remove either Positionals or DoT what would it be^^

[SeverianLyonesse]

Positionals vs DoTs what would you remove?


let me rephrase my question, If you had to remove either Positionals or DoT what would it be^^

I refuse to answer that. I think you are shifting the Overton window into even worse territory by proposing the question in the first place.

This and similarly thoughtless threads asking jobs operate identically or be "streamlined" is why the game sucks so hard right now. I swear, a lot of the chatter from people with "ideas" online is the utter bane of FFXIV. Maybe think about how your ideas might actually impact the game if they gained any attention/traction before publishing them.

[Shurrikhan]

I would make positionals more job-specific as mentioned in my previous post. SAM (front), MNK (front/flanking), DRG (flanking), RPR (5 yalms), NIN (rear), VPR (rear/flanking). Mostly to remove senseless samey positional dancing.

Nitpicks:

A positional by itself is not gameplay unless one's target frequently rotates to force movement to return to that positional. It's the changing between positions that causes gameplay. That "dancing" IS the gameplay, and what most melee players enjoy.

They're "samey" only in that because there are only two positions that do not cause death by cleave and you need multiple in order to have places to move between, they will all use 100% of the available positionals, even if at different types and with different manners of control (bankable oGCD, bankable combo path, simultaneous choice, no control, etc.).

Nor is "5 yalms" a position. That's a 67% longer melee range that would make Reaper even less constrained as it air-swipes from 2+ scythe's away.

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I refuse to answer that. I think you are shifting the Overton window into even worse territory by proposing the question in the first place.

100% agreed.