Positionals vs Damage over Time

[Raikai]

I don't think they'll axe dots simply because it's a foundation to make a new job upon. They might diminish (even further) for everybody else, though.

Positionals, however... yeah, I can see that on the chopping block. I personally LIKE the idea of positionals, I just don't think it's good with the innate server lag that XIV has, so I wouldn't miss it.

Ideally IF positionals remains, they need to do 2 things with them: 1) Add a visual cue that you actually hit the positional 2) Buff their potencies a LOT, so hitting them actually make a dent of difference for people other than speedrunners

[RyuuZero]

I will always ignore positionals so for sure positionals. I have true north on my action bars and I don't even know why. I've never used it and never will.

well True North let's you ignore the skill's positional requirements but granting you the positional bonus damage^^
so True North may contribute to boost your damage^^

I don't think they'll axe dots simply because it's a foundation to make a new job upon. They might diminish (even further) for everybody else, though.

Positionals, however... yeah, I can see that on the chopping block. I personally LIKE the idea of positionals, I just don't think it's good with the innate server lag that XIV has, so I wouldn't miss it.

I think the Problem is that FFXIV doesn't respect Positionals: You have save spots, the Boss turns around for a targetted AoE (or whatever), The Tank turns the Boss for whatever reason, The Boss runs to the Center doing stuff, the hitbox of the Boss is too big or the Target doesn't even has a flank/rear like in PotD/HoH/Eureka/Bozja/DR(S)/Zadnor&that Syrcus Catabombs thing they added in Endwalker.. + True North which nullifies Positionals anyway...

Ideally IF positionals remains, they need to do 2 things with them: 1) Add a visual cue that you actually hit the positional 2) Buff their potencies a LOT, so hitting them actually make a dent of difference for people other than speedrunners

you mean like Xenoblade 1 Definitive Edition does with an Exclamation Mark Symbol when your Ability is recommended to use? yeah that would be cool but the difference is Xenoblade (All Games) respect Positionals and FFXIV doesn't^^;
though speaking of Xenoblade, in those Games you also interact more with the Opponent, mainly topple and break them, which make Positionals easier to hit^^
In FFXIV you just decrease the Opponents Lifebar and maybe interrupt a cast but that's it and then the Boss turns again..

[Raikai]

In FFXIV you just decrease the Opponents Lifebar and maybe interrupt a cast but that's it and then the Boss turns again..

I wonder if a stagger mechanic like in FF7 Remake would do well somehow in FFXIV... Well, maybe not unless they change the fights to be not so scripted.

[Xenoviastar]

Why not instead of True North just incorporate True North's Effect in major abilities such as "Perfect Balance", "Trick Attack", "Meikyo Shisui", "Guttony" and "Life Surge or Lance Charge". That way you reduce the Button bloat by 1 and still keep positional because they are rewarding.

[Bright-Flower]

Depends on the particular job. For monk, I'm fine with the changes to the combo. Because now instead of tracking two buffs and a debuff on my buff bar and the enemy's, all the info for which combo I need to use next is consolidated on my job gauge in DT. So I'm fine with letting go of the dot there.

[Shurrikhan]

Can I instead pick True North for removal?

[wildvenonat]

I mostly play in forays, which has no positionals to start with, so that's my vote.

My ideal, however, is to get rid of Death's Design et al. It is unaesthetic for a boss to be covered in debuffs that are specific for one person and involve no damage over time effects, and actively annoying when you consider the buff cap.

[Lyth]

Have you given any thought to maining WAR? It seems like the perfect match for what you're looking for.

[SeverianLyonesse]

I actually agree with the general sentiment of this thread.

As much as I like the idea of positionals, in practice on most jobs it just amounts to alternating rear/flanking positions, a kind of mindless sliding left and right. Which kind of dilutes the job fantasy when everyone is doing it.

That's not to say that they ought to be totally removed. I just think that they don't add much when every melee DPS job uses them in the same senseless, flavorless manner.

Better things to do with positionals:

1. Tailor them to the particular job fantasy.
a. NIN should only have rear positionals.
b. I feel like DRG should only have flanking positionals.
c. IMO SAM should actually have only *front* positionals (if we are talking pure flavor and ignoring stacking on the butt in practice).
d. MNK and maybe VPR make more sense to have alternating positionals given how dynamic they are; maybe MNK should have front/flanking (direct combat) and VPR should have rear/flanking (hunting prey).
e. RPR just shouldn't have positionals at all, I think. The job fantasy doesn't really inform any positional playstyle, and I think it feels kind of fitting for the "Void" class to be "devoid" of positionals.

(viewed another way, we see kind of a "theme" emerge: Striking (honor/martial jobs) hits straight on (front), Scouting (assassin/hunters) hits from behind (rear), and Maiming (poking sticks) does neither.)

(Alternatively, as polearm users, DRG and RPR could have bonuses for being between 5-10 yalms away instead of front/flanking/rear bonuses. Even though imo that might create some confusion as to why Scouting gets Aiming accessories.)

2. Design encounters around different melee positioning, so different jobs have to solve the encounter differently. They already kind of do this anyway, so it would just take a little more intentionality I think.

[Aco505]

Yet another thread on positionals with non-melee mains arguing for their removal. Sometimes also melee mains do this as well, mind you, but the question that we must always ask ourselves is: would melee get something in return if positionals were removed?

The answer is no.

Positionals may not incur in great DPS gains/losses but they make playing melee jobs dynamic by having them move around at set times. They're "simpler" with dummy bosses that don't move but they're far from it on fights in which the bosses rotate or, worse, the tanks decide to rotate or move all the time for no reason.

The entire point of positionals is to hit them all, not most of them. If they were removed, melee would just be completely static until mechanics forced them to move.

Omnidirectional bosses are not always well designed (e.g. P7S, imho P12-2S) and positionals have never hindered fight design (e. g. P3S, P5S). One of the hardest duties for positionals this expansion was P11S, yet the fight itself was kinda mild.