[Feedback] DRG changes for 7.0 from the LXXXI PLL

[Aco505]

The purpose of this thread is to provide feedback on DRG in 7.0 based on the information given in the LXXXI PLL.

While we are still missing the entire picture due to us not having access to action and trait tooltips, I still believe that there are issues that should be commented on, in hopes that they might be fixed at some point at least in the medium-term:

1. Eye management being gone greatly reduces overall optimization and flexibility options for DRG.

Eye management provided great flexibility to DRG, allowing us to either delay, not delay or use a double Life of the Dragon window depending on the encounter.

Most duties would have us use GSK > HJ on hard CD starting from the opener but some would require us to enter LotD earlier, or to use two of them back to back depending on downtime. This won't be possible anymore.

Additionally, from a lore point-of-view, removing the eyes from the DRG gauge is antithetical to the job considering how important dragon eyes are in lore during the MSQ and to dragoons themselves, it's the entire reason why they exist.

Many other jobs have gotten more in their gauge but DRG has lost: please return eyes to the gauge in some shape or form in the hopefully not-so-distant future.

2. LotD should last 30s so that we can keep some flexibility when it comes to burst in encounters with downtime.

Changing LotD to 20s will actually make the job even more rigid.

Even though we do not know how many NAS we will have access to, the 3rd NAS gave us the ability to enter LotD earlier to buff the last two should the encounter required it.

If the CD of NAS stays at 10s, then this won't be possible anymore, just as it happens in level 70 duties.

If the LotD 20s duration tradeoff comes with a 30s GSK, it'd be fine. However, doing so would mean being in LotD 66% of the time, which would be interesting but is unlikely to happen and so GSK is most likely a 60s CD now.

Either make LotD last 30s with a 60s CD GSK or 20s with a 30s GSK.

3. The DRG kit now feels disconnected. More actions just deal damage and have little synergy between them.

In 7.0, only GSK with LotD, Life Surge and Wyrmwind Thrust interact with other actions in some way.

High Jump and Mirage Dive no longer appear to have anything to do with LotD and the new oGCDs simply become active after using Dragonfire Dive and Stardiver.

As a job, we basically have one gauge now, the scales, because the dragon gauge has become a glorified timer with nothing else attached to it.

On another note, we did not gain a 3rd scale while keeping WWT's cost at 2. Hopefully, we retain the second charge of Life Surge, as the ability feels bad to use as a no-charge 40s CD below lvl 90.

4. The reduction of positionals after simplifying the job's main gauge feels unnecessary.

If DRG had become a bit more complex or involved after the LotD changes, removing the 5th positional would have made more sense. However, as it stands, this is not the case. Additionally, compounding this with the loss of GSK as a 30s CD means that the filler phase between bursts will feel emptier.

Give the 5th new GCD a positional status again. It can still be omnidirectional during LotD to make it simpler in burst if needed.

5. Make Raiden Thrust and Draconian Fury full permanent upgrades to True Thrust and Doom Spike.

Simply allow scales to be granted when using those weaponskills with the Draconian Fire buff active. Everything would basically stay the same but we wouldn't have to keep using the old weaponskills at the beginning of a battle or after long periods of downtime.

6. Make Dragon Sight an upgrade to Lance Charge so that we keep the visual of the former.

Removing DS makes sense due to the issues it could cause (even though it's quite sad to lose the tether), but why not make DS an upgrade to Lance Charge? It would be the same: a personal buff with (likely) a 60s cooldown, but we get to keep the cooler animation.

Combine LC's animation with the swirling dragon from DS on the user so that they stay linked as original ability and upgrade.

Additionally, the Blood of the Dragon blue aura should be returned in some way. Too many of our actions are linked to Nidhogg (red) while they become less and less related to Midgardsormr (blue) and we still have no connection to Hraesvelgr (or any of the other great wyrms we've met).

7. Being able to use LotD in the opener is appreciated, but I think it's more detrimental to the job than good.

DRG, BRD and WHM were the only jobs that couldn't use their full kit in the opener. Homogenizing them like this is not a good move. Not every job needs to have the same damage profile and it's alright to build up your damage slowly but surely.

Consider revising this for 8.0 to recover and preserve job identity.


Something unrelated to DRG (as far as we know) is how some jobs like GNB or PLD have some specific actions activated after using their 60s buff CD. This is an issue, as it could reduce flexibility in the usage of these weaponskills (especially Sonic Break due to its long DoT) in specific encounters with specific downtime. This change just feels like the developers are hand holding the players too much. Unless an action is directly related to another, this limitation should not exist.


TL; DR. If the purpose of the rework was to make the job more cohesive, it doesn't look like it has achieved it. The job has become even more rigid and lost what little flexibility it had. Please consider the points above at least for the medium-term so that we can retain flexibility and optimization options, as well as having a more interesting filler phase.

For those reading, how do you feel about what we know so far?

[CStrife912]

Thing is this is purely going off of just some changes we don’t even have the full list of what moves do what and if they have additional affects… it’s too soon to say really what has properly been changed.

[ZiraZ]

Thing is this is purely going off of just some changes we don’t even have the full list of what moves do what and if they have additional affects… it’s too soon to say really what has properly been changed.

This is their job action trailer not a 3rd party datamine, as far as I know what they are doing in the video is real gameplay not just playing animations in completely random order so yeah we might not know what MD does or the HJ/DFD situation but they clearly are not part of any important interactions since they are able to show the entire kit and as it stands the LOTD change is horrible, and if there is any hidden additional effects that we can't see then they are probably lame too since we are unable to see anything substantial coming from them.

[LordMcMutton]

[...] what they are doing in the video is real gameplay not just playing animations in completely random order

I don't have Dragoon maxed out, so you have far more knowledge of its workings than I do, but they do seem to do a lot of random stuff in these, like Warrior performing a random mitigation between each of its three Fell Cleaves

[ZiraZ]

I don't have Dragoon maxed out, so you have far more knowledge of its workings than I do, but they do seem to do a lot of random stuff in these, like Warrior performing a random mitigation between each of its three Fell Cleaves

Yeah they're not doing a proper rotation but they are playing with a completely functional kit and we saw absolutely nothing interacting with the gauge other than the wyrmwind lights showing and the not so very useful anymore timer on Life, highly doubt they're hiding interactions, I don't think that's been done before on any job actions trailer.
So we might not be 100% sure how it's gonna play out but we can puzzle the clues and can tell it's not looking good and how it's absolutely a downgrade from current DRG.

[Aco505]

Thing is this is purely going off of just some changes we don’t even have the full list of what moves do what and if they have additional affects… it’s too soon to say really what has properly been changed.

Hey. This is why I start with the disclaimer that we don't know everything.

However, we do know that eyes don't exist anymore, that Geirskogul enters LotD directly and that the timer of LotD is 20s at level 100. The fact that HJ, MD, DFD, STD and the two new oGCDs don't change anything on the gauge can also be seen in the video.

All of this gives enough clues to warrant worrying about the specific points I mention.

Perhaps there's some hidden gem that will give us something akin to optimal drift MNK but it's obvious that core aspects of the class have been changed without making them cohesive with one another.

If GSK's CD is 30s, then it'll be fine because DRG could potentially be like an "oGCD MNK" with strong filler and, in theory, mild burst. But as I said, the likely scenario is that GSK's CD will just be 60s and the filler will be worse than it is now, more so if we consider the loss of a positional.

[Darkpaw]

This is their job action trailer not a 3rd party datamine, as far as I know what they are doing in the video is real gameplay not just playing animations in completely random order so yeah we might not know what MD does or the HJ/DFD situation but they clearly are not part of any important interactions since they are able to show the entire kit and as it stands the LOTD change is horrible, and if there is any hidden additional effects that we can't see then they are probably lame too since we are unable to see anything substantial coming from them.

Okay one very flawed piece of logic here.

Every job action trailer is just randomly placed actions they think looks cool in that sequence. No job action trailer ever in this game has been anywhere near optimal or how you would actually play the job.

Its meant as a showcase of “HEY CHECK OUT OUR PRETTY NEW ANIMATIONS.”

[ZiraZ]

Okay one very flawed piece of logic here.

Every job action trailer is just randomly placed actions they think looks cool in that sequence. No job action trailer ever in this game has been anywhere near optimal or how you would actually play the job.

Its meant as a showcase of “HEY CHECK OUT OUR PRETTY NEW ANIMATIONS.”

Yeah but the post above mentioned, NOTHING they did all video long made the gauge tick, it just sat there being useless all video long. So unless they went completely out of their way to hide an forbidden interaction then yeah the gauge is dead and clearly so are the eyes.
I don't think if this has ever happened with other job before but DRG might be the first case of a job that can hide the gauge since it provides no information anymore.

[Aco505]

Yeah, the thing is that nothing in our kit causes the gauge to do anything anymore except using Raiden Thrust/Draconian Fury.

The timer of the dragon gauge isn't really relevant for anything. I wish they'd have used it more and returned the way Blood of the Dragon worked in HW in some manner: you had to fill it and spend it without losing it, in a similar vein to Enochian.

Simplifying parts of the kit is fine if they make others more complex (or with the potential of being so) but for now it doesn't look like this'll be the case. I can only dream of a 30s GSK CD so that our filler is good and oGCD based but... it probably won't happen.

[mallleable]

This is off topic, but you mention BRD having a weak opener, and as a BRD player I want a stronger opener. If Barrage stays a 2 minute cool down, then let it grant a free Apex/Blast Arrow or something on top of the triple hit Refulgent Arrow please!