New scholar changes are not great

[fulminating]

I've played this game since 2011, I'm quite aware of when the individual limit breaks came out. Just because they didn't appear until Heavensward doesn't mean that SE thought of them the patch before they came out. It was long before decided, during the 2.x patches, that SCH would have Angel Wing. Just like long before the relic weapons were finished, it was decided that SCH would have an angel book. And note then, that Whm had a nature themed weapon. Whm becoming more and more divine has no bearing on whether or not Sch has always had an angel association. And the vast majority of abilities added to Whm, and every other job, are simply the abilities they have in FFXI. Afflatus Solace and Misery, for example, are called Heart of Solace and Misery in Japanese. Which are the stances added to Whm in FFXI. Divine Benison was a trait that allowed Whm (and Scholar) to cast status healing spells faster, and with less enmity.
Scholar does have a military theme. It also has a butterfly theme. It also has a scholarly/school theme (Broils' Japanese names are literally about scolding and lecturing someone). Transforming with the power of Lily may be out of nowhere, especially now that Sch is making a hard break from its Arcanist roots, but angel themes are not.

You've played since 2011 which means you are entirely familiar with the in-house localisation supposedly working closely to ensure the intent is correct across language barriers. For example, liturgy of the bell's french name is Tintinnabule, a tintinnabulum is a bell mounted on a pole, signifying a link with the Pope. You can run through the others yourself to see that they are all catholic/christianity themed in both english and french. I think it's similar for german, except for liturgy being glockenspiel for some reason.

Shall we examine Thyrus, Nirvana and their abundance of feathered wings, or maybe majestas, cane of the white tsar and sindri, aymur, elemental cane, law's order cane or that manderville one with the wings around a crystal.

We have also literally just had aloaolo island, with several bits of arcanima lore elaborated on and the scholar equivalent of tataru's carbuncle.

[Kimmay]

Once again, Whm becoming more angelic and religion oriented has nothing to do with Scholar. So I'll reiterate for you, since you've chosen to ignore the point that I made: Whm is getting the vast majority of its new abilities from FFXI, where Whm and Pld are religion based jobs. Those jobs becoming more a more divine as time goes on is a matter of laziness, that has nothing to do with the founding lore of either job. FFXIV Whm is founded on using the power of nature, specifically Earth, Wind, and Water, and had nothing to do with the divine. Whm was the nature healer, and Sch was the angelic healer. Whm going back on the FFXIV lore to become more like older versions of Whm has nothing to do with what they'd been doing with the jobs for years prior. Whm using glare and dia on the first was acceptable for lore reasons, but it should have ended when we returned to the source.

[Calysto]

1) SCH is always OP

While ensuring they always have reasons to complain... (ED removals, pet action removal, complete gutting, lackluster trailers)

Snip

Yet nothing, lore or otherwise, to back any of that. I could say the whole seraphic theming came from WHM unused assets and have as much chances as you to be right.

[Tsurayu]

1. Angel feathers is the ability of seraph (esper/summon) from ff6.
1b. personal limit breaks were a heavensward thing.
2. the level 60 white mage artefact weapon, seraph cane, is called seraph cane and has a seraph on it.
3. if you consider the amdapor archetecture and golemancy in lost city of amdapor (hard), there's a clear angelic bent.
4. every angel mention either of us has brought up is from heavensward specifically.

Edit: so in the expansion with heavy religious overtones both healers were given the same religious imagery. However, white mage continued using the christian/angelic theming - divine benison, plenary indulgence, afflatus rapture, temperance, liturgy (of the bell) and seraph strike. I'm not going to count miracle of nature there, as that tends to refer to more natural wonder than overt divinity. Scholar on the other hand has excogition, chain stratagem, recitation and protraction as tactical themed names, with expedient being a forced march effect that tends to have militaristic connotation. The other scholar abilities having fairy naming convention.

I just don't think you can fairly say that this is anything other than out of left field.

I feel like you just answered yourself.

Yes, Scholar has overtly tactical/strategic sounding moves and a bit of lore, but the Fae aesthetic is equally part of the Scholar identity thanks to Lily.

I think it's fine for people to have a preference for the more militaristic identity, but the people around here claiming that the Fae or angelic side of Scholar's identity is out of left field or misplaced are disillusioned. It has been just as much a part of the Scholar's identity since Day 1.

One can make an argument that perhaps this expansion is leaning a bit too much on the Fae side and not enough, or at all, on the tactician side, but saying the Fae side has no business existing at all is ridiculous.

[AmiableApkallu]

I think it's fine for people to have a preference for the more militaristic identity, but the people around here claiming that the Fae or angelic side of Scholar's identity is out of left field or misplaced are disillusioned.

Where I draw the line is conflating "fae" with "angelic". I am perhaps not as well read as fulminating, but I am… curious why FFXIV can't seem to consistently separate WHM from SCH here. WHM has Seraph strike in PvP, but SCH calls upon Seraph in PvE. Etc.

Each job needs to have a lane and stick to it.

[Sani2341]

I feel like you just answered yourself.

Yes, Scholar has overtly tactical/strategic sounding moves and a bit of lore, but the Fae aesthetic is equally part of the Scholar identity thanks to Lily.

I think it's fine for people to have a preference for the more militaristic identity, but the people around here claiming that the Fae or angelic side of Scholar's identity is out of left field or misplaced are disillusioned. It has been just as much a part of the Scholar's identity since Day 1.

One can make an argument that perhaps this expansion is leaning a bit too much on the Fae side and not enough, or at all, on the tactician side, but saying the Fae side has no business existing at all is ridiculous.

Fae aesthetic.

Not angels.

Not holy

Not nun

Tactician aided by the fae.

The costum change is clearly not fae inspired with those cosplay wings and nun robes.

[Tsurayu]

Fae aesthetic.

Not angels.

Not holy

Not nun

Tactician aided by the fae.

The costum change is clearly not fae inspired with those cosplay wings and nun robes.

Yeah. i can understand that. I like the idea, but it certainly can be improved. I don't mind the idea of angel wings as opposed to something more Titania inspired or something, but the flowing white robes and the less-than-stellar appearance and physics of the wings aren't amazing. But I'm not going to go too nuts over it. We've barely seen it, only from the back, and there is a chance it will still be altered between the media tour build and early access - probably not a great chance, but a chance.

[ThorneDynasty]

Scholar's limit break is called Angel Feathers. The Lv50 relic is an angel winged book. The lv60 Anima has swirling angel wings. Scholar has been angelic since 2.0

Yeaaah, that's incredibly flimsy. 1 weapon sort of has feather motif and a move you don't see for hours of gameplay. The only overtly "angelic" thing about the LB3 animation is Seraph showing up anyway.

The job is just a huge clusterfuck of aesthetics without adding robes and angel wings to the mix too. If anything they should entirely rework Seraph, not double down on the most confusing and clunky party of the SCH design. SCH players have been complaining about it mechanically and aesthetically for ages, asking Seraph to at least get glamors. Seems kind of a spiting move to tack on even more clutter.

[rawker]

Scholars have always been war tacticians. They have employed the aide of the fey to assist them with healing while they themselves do the supporting. The focus in the lore was support. The reason why they have angelic/seraphic/fey theme on their healing isn't because they are converting to Fey-ism or whatever. To me, I see those as what it is, seeking aide. from the books, down to their Limit Breaks.

Seraphism is completely out of touch.

And finally, not all healers want to look like fairies or angels and telling us to move to a different job will always be met with contempt because you are on the winning side. Granted some might take the advice and move, but for some, like me, I will not adhere to it, and will vehemently fight for what we should get. Even if it meant to resign from healing altogether, to show my utter disgust and dissatisfaction with what they have done to SCH. I have done so with SMN for the entire expansion. I can do so with SCH.

[Calysto]

The gameplay is probably going to be as boring as it is since 5.0.
-No major changes mentioned
-Most of the kit unshown
-A 2 minutes recast dot
-A probably 2 or 3 minutes recast "buff"

Seraphism making you a WHM is exactly what nobody wanted.
The only lore that SE want to keep is that SCH job trailer has to be disappointing.

The angelic thing was forced for no reason.
-The fairy aesthetic was an option
-The arcanic aesthetic was an option
-The strategic aesthetic was an option
-Even steampunk aesthetic would fit nicely as a mix of science and magic (after seeing the gear effects in the benchmark - it's kinda free since MCH moved to diesel-punk)

...But no : generic angelic transformation, low effort, not flashy or interesting and not consistent with the job lore (and no : saying it was angelic since 2.0 because of a weapon is like saying DRG was about Fishing because it had a harpoon).