Scholar's Identity Transformation

[GrimGale]

Holy is just a blast of energy, that doesn't make it the angelic job.

I guess the debate is wether "sacred light", and "religious themes" can be disconnected from "angels".I know the FF doesn't really establish that the WHM is a religion based job like a priest. (Even though there is an absolutely clear inspiration in the naming of WHM abilities from religious dogma.)

[the-kuponut]

If Lb3 design matters for SCH then it does for WHM.



Is Seraph an actual angelic entity? Is she a creature sent from a higher plane to act as a messenger for the gods? We know Lily, the "faerie" is an aetherical construct aswell. Or at least it was back in 2.0 if I remember my SCH job quest correctly. Are we just debating wether Sin eaters (or overtly light polarized creatures) look angelic? What are we even talking about anymore, what angels look like?

If seraph is an angel, then sin eaters are angels, that being a vaguely """"humanoid"""" (Some sin eaters get really abstract) with bird wings on their back wreathed in holy light. Clearly the same "light" that empowers holy spells also turns people into angels.



Coincidentally, you also get Seraph as summonable creature when you get to the first.

No Seraph is your LB3. Fairies are actual entities, described in the lore book as otherworldy entities you form a bond with to be able to use restorative magic. They have their own will and personality even. They are NOT arcane constructs. Just see Statice from Aloalo, they're a SCH's fairy with an actual personality and their own will. Fairies are actual beings. Saying they're aetheric constructs is like saying Feo Ul is an aetheric construct.

Please reread what I said, you're debating things I never stated. I didn't debate angel forms. I told you Kuribu, the "angels" of amdapor you refer to, are stone constructs. Here's the description: "Created by Amdapori mages to protect their city, this winged golem is animated by gems infused with the power of white magic."

[GrimGale]

No Seraph is your LB3. Fairies are actual entities, described in the lore book as otherworldy entities you form a bond with to be able to use restorative magic. They have their own will and personality even. They are NOT arcane constructs. Just see Statice from Aloalo, they're a SCH's fairy with an actual personality and their own will. Fairies are actual beings. Saying they're aetheric constructs is like saying Feo Ul is an aetheric construct.

Please reread what I said, you're debating things I never stated. I didn't debate angel forms. I told you Kuribu, the "angels" of amdapor you refer to, are stone constructs. Here's the description: "Created by Amdapori mages to protect their city, this winged golem is animated by gems infused with the power of white magic."

Fair enough. Though I remember reading somewhere that Lily and the faeries from the first are not actually connected. They just happen to look the same. It was probably retconned at some point.

I still think the angelic aesthetic works better with WHM. I don't reject it for SCH either. Seraph makes sense as a supercharged fairy summon.

I will absolutely not accept the white gown dress as a good choice for a SCH tranformation though.

[the-kuponut]

Fair enough. Though I remember reading somewhere that Lily and the faeries from the first are not actually connected. They just happen to look the same. It was probably retconned at some point.

I still think the angelic aesthetic works better with WHM. I don't reject it for SCH either. Seraph makes sense as a supercharged fairy summon.

I will absolutely not accept the white gown dress as a good choice for a SCH tranformation though.

They are supposed to be the first's equivalent of our source's version. Hence Statice's appearance resembling pixies a lot.

And you don't have to accept it. This forum exists for feedback. You can and should voice your opinion about the transformation. Personally I'm indifferent to it but would love a toggle so those who don't like it can just disable it. I'm always on the side of choices.

I don't know if it sounded hostile or sarcastic but like I said before, I really hope SE gives a toggle option .

[GrimGale]

Hence Statice's appearance resembling pixies a lot.

Wait, now I am curious. Fairies are living magical creatures. Are angels living magical creatures too? Where does Seraph come from? Is there lore about her origin anywhere? She does look like Hydaelin a bit.

[the-kuponut]

Wait, now I am curious. Fairies are living magical creatures. Are angels living magical creatures too? Where does Seraph come from? Is there lore about her origin anywhere? She does look like Hydaelin a bit.

Sadly because they no longer have job quests, we didn't get as much lore about job abilities beyond the LBs and some abilities from the HW. The LB3 description though says that when a fatally wounded SCH thought they were about to die, their fairy transformed into Seraph. So she is the angelic and ultimate form of our fairy Lily, who uses her angelic powers to save us (and possibly lend us those powers in DT).

I wonder about the Hydaelyn connection though, it's pretty interesting.

Solar Bahamut's (the new SMN summon) glyph is the blessing of light! We do not know the details yet, but it's likely the Hydaelyn version of Lunar Bahamut, which Fandaniel summons (Zodiark adjacent). It's so interesting isn't it?

Alright we should stop because we're derailing the thread lol. So this will be my last post in this, I enjoyed the lore talk with you. Have a nice day

[Supersnow845]

Again this doesn’t really answer my question though, the act of performing an LB3 by using a massive release of dynamis is canon, however is what the lore states the LB3 actually does canon

This circles back to the point I made about AST that you just dismissed outright for some reason. AST’s LB3 lore is completely at odds with the doomed timeline and the elpis loop. They functionally cannot exist together. Does that not imply that the LB3 “lore” is more just exaggerated flavour text and not actually anything related to the lore of the job it’s coming from

[Emitans]

(copy pasting my response from a healer forums thread)
Doing my civic duty and voicing my distaste for Seraphism. I don't like my character's outfit being changed, especially to a look that doesn't even match their job. If I want to wear holy robes I would be playing WHM.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Wow I'm amazed at all the lore zealots defending this.

Just because there are some loose connections to Seraphism in the lore does not make this a good design decision. It just means the lore was also poorly handled. This is still a cringily bad direction to take the academic/tactician class, unless you are a bible-thumping zealot who thinks angels and military strategy are one and the same.

[ToodlesElNoodles]

If we want to stick with lore of SCH being the Seraph summoner, then let mw the tactician commander summoning angels throughout the field (which is what Seraphism’s spell effects are).

I don’t need to become Seraph. I just want to command all of them.

I would be more happy to instead have 3 Seraphs float around me Noulith style and incorporate them into the insta-casting animation for Adloquium and Succor II.

I don’t disagree that SCH isn’t a Seraph summoner. But first and foremost lorewise, a SCH was (and is) a battlefield tactician and commander. (Which is why Expedient is very amazing from a lore perspective and mechanical perspective).

Like I love the idea and mechanics of Seraphism (adds another tactical phase to SCH). But the aesthetic of turning into a white-robed wannabe WHM is the wrong direction aesthetically!