Another Bahamut? Why not Odin? (SMN 7.0 job action PLL feedback)

[SkyCake]

“SMN was simplified so they can add more ontop of it for future expansions”

Future expansions: add a new skin and a new skill every 120 after searing light.

"First time?" meme - Machinist

[Ronald_Bloodwings]

I love dragons more than I should and I gotta say I do not like Solar Bahamut's design after having considered it now that the hype has passed. SMN is the job I love for how strong its aesthetic and fantasy has become with the redesign; I do FEEL like a summoner summoning powerful entities to unleash an attack before summoning the next powerful entity to unleash another. While that is very simple in terms of mechanics it's the fantasy that saves the job for me and makes it enjoyable. Solar Bahamut clashes with every other summon we have available as it has a distinctly different aesthetic to all our other summons and for a job that is mechanically very simple, especially since it is the exact gameplay as Bahamut/Phoenix, clashing with the established aesthetic is not a good thing. Its design reminds me heavily of sin eaters, particularly the last boss of Holminster Switch, which is not a good thing.

Were they to announce a full glamour system for our summons tomorrow Solar Bahamut would be the first on the chopping block for me.

[ThorneDynasty]

It's not though. There's zero weight behind the summons when it' just another instant cast on a mindless loop.

Even RPR's finisher feels more significant a cast.

edit: This argument of "but it feels like summoner now!" always actually boils down to "pretty colors". Like what FF games did you play growing up? Summons were always huge high cost attacks you committed to, not these wet farts. It's also a really silly counter because it's just skin - Those animations could easily be attached to far better gameplay. You are arguing a completely separate point.

[seolhyun]

I just dont understand WHY the need for another Bahamut though... I know they read some peoples comment in Japan and I can only wonder what the reception of SMN going into Dawn Trail is over there.

jp smn thread also doesnt know what solar bahamut is and is wondering why they didnt add shiva ramuh and leviathan

[Thel_Eruyt]

I remember hearing rumors or something about Solar Bahamut and thinking "What a dumb idea that is". Well, now it is a sad reality. Honestly, kinda agree with the fact it is a wasted opportunity, considering both Alexander and Odin are right there. And not even talking about Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan waiting for their turn.

The design choice for Solar Bahamut is also weird. "What if the Bahamut we know is not how he used to look". Like we know exactly how he used to look, cause he was summoned not by Allag, but by Tiamat who knew him better than anyone else. If anything, this Solar version looks like an artificial allagan fake. Kinda sad that for me both job fantasy and gameplay didn't become better for SMN.

yeah and we saw Bahamuts dad and 5 of his 6 sibligs, Heck even the one corrupted by the void that turned into an actual sword, looks quite "normal dragonlike" after we rescued her

[Thel_Eruyt]

It's not though. There's zero weight behind the summons when it' just another instant cast on a mindless loop.

Even RPR's finisher feels more significant a cast.

edit: This argument of "but it feels like summoner now!" always actually boils down to "pretty colors". Like what FF games did you play growing up? Summons were always huge high cost attacks you committed to, not these wet farts. It's also a really silly counter because it's just skin - Those animations could easily be attached to far better gameplay. You are arguing a completely separate point.

I like new summoner more than old summoner because what I like about summoner is the fantasy of the class, using the power of strong guys... that My main damage was the D.O.T does not feel like a "summoner" but more like a Wow warlock...now thinking about it they should add a d.o.t. focused class. but belive that they are removing as many dots as they can from classes so not sure that will ever exist

[Big-Isaac]

Thematically, the only thing that vexes me about post-rework SMN is that they kind of got the order of events wrong.
As others have said, summons in the other games were essentially more commital, flahsier and stornger black magic spells. In an MMO setting, it would make sense to translate this into you using your spells to build some resource leading eventually to the big primal nuke.
But in FF14, we got it backwards. You first summon the primal and then you start using spells based on their element. I may have been better if pressing the primal button would enter you into "summoning Ifrit/Titan/Garuda" mode. This would give you access to those 2-4 charge abilities, with the respective primal coming in for its nuke once you've spent all the charges.

[Thel_Eruyt]

Thematically, the only thing that vexes me about post-rework SMN is that they kind of got the order of events wrong.
As others have said, summons in the other games were essentially more commital, flahsier and stornger black magic spells. In an MMO setting, it would make sense to translate this into you using your spells to build some resource leading eventually to the big primal nuke.
But in FF14, we got it backwards. You first summon the primal and then you start using spells based on their element. I may have been better if pressing the primal button would enter you into "summoning Ifrit/Titan/Garuda" mode. This would give you access to those 2-4 charge abilities, with the respective primal coming in for its nuke once you've spent all the charges.

I actually like that, mechanically changes nothing(as its just doing your 2 4 4) then boom primal of the element you just choosed. having the primal as the final "bang" rather than the beggining of the phase, would give them more impact

[ThorneDynasty]

I like new summoner more than old summoner because what I like about summoner is the fantasy of the class, using the power of strong guys... that My main damage was the D.O.T does not feel like a "summoner" but more like a Wow warlock...now thinking about it they should add a d.o.t. focused class. but belive that they are removing as many dots as they can from classes so not sure that will ever exist

And this excuses current SMN design how?

[Thel_Eruyt]

And this excuses current SMN design how?

as simple as I enjoyed playing the class during all EW more than when I played it in SHB.