Another Bahamut? Why not Odin? (SMN 7.0 job action PLL feedback)

[Lancet]

I wasn't going say anything but I've changed mind

To Yoshi-P

I hate to say this but if you don't give us Leviathan Shiva and Ramah in this game then you're making Summoner look really stupid and it is starting to embarrass us now, In FF11 Summoner could use all the elements why can't FF14 do the same?

[RicaRuin]

I wasn't going say anything but I've changed mind

To Yoshi-P

I hate to say this but if you don't give us Leviathan Shiva and Ramah in this game then you're making Summoner look really stupid and it is starting to embarrass us now, In FF11 Summoner could use all the elements why can't FF14 do the same?

I really do want Shiva and Leviathan too, but using 'but FF XI had it!' as an argument is one of the weakest argument possible due to aforementioned reasons.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Odin or Shiva would have been great, SMN did get the short end of the stick this expansion I think. And it seems they didn't add the depth we had been asking for.

[Shenlao]

Why are yall expecting shiva and levi? If this is fine get excited for lunar phoenix in 8.0. And hey after that maybe we can add Neo Bahamut in.

Like nothing against anyone that doesn't care but it shouldn't be very hard to understand why the choice of Bahamut II when we only have been using 5 summons of the entire 14 repertoire as an addition is just wildly baffling to other people.

[Moqi]

Pictomancer will have more summons than Summoner by 8.0, if they don't already.

[RulerOfPotaoes]

I knew to my core that they wouldn't add Levi,Shiva and Ramuh simply because adding 3 new summons with each having their own mechanics PLUS other none related skills was simply too much resource work.

On the other Hand. If they Just added Shiva,Levi and Ramuh as simply just "skins" with the exact same move sets as Ifrit, Titan etc.. Then people would've complained that they didnt bring anything new to the job. Because they were just skins.

Guess what Im trying to say is that adding another Big Summon phase OR adding more to the core gameplay makes more sense from a development point of view. We really need to see that job guide tho.

[Jade_Tyrant]

They brought the Trance Phases to play around the limit a little bit, but as had been confirmed in Lore interviews later, we can summon Phoenix and Bahamut because their aether completely drenches Eorzea and influenced the WoL by slowly osmosing into them before we technically got our first Egi - hence why the limit was reached after 3 Egis.

This is news to me; do you have those sources on hand?

The only thing I remember from reading interviews was that the presence of Phoenix's aether in the Calamity (alongside Bahamut's) was why we were able to attune to them, nothing about that being related to the three egi limit or us having technically gotten Bahamut and Phoenix as Egis before getting the other three. The whole reasoning with the Trance was specifically to get around the Egi limit.

(The interview I'm referencing is this one; I don't know if it's the original, but has the explanation about Phoenix https://www.4gamer.net/games/199/G019924/20210810055/ )

This is meant as an honest question, I should clarify, I'm not trying to make some accusation that you're lying. I just never came across that information, and I've been generally frustrated by the lack of given lore explanation for why we can summon Bahamut and Phoenix egis despite the limit. If the devs have actually answered that question, I'd definitely like to finally have the answer (even if I'll admit I don't particularly like the "we already had egis in us" answer, it's at least an actual answer!)

[Raikai]

And what about Leviathan, Ramuh, & Shiva?
There are 6 main elements of FFXIV, why only 3 of them have summons? It feels incomplete.
Also Ifrit, Shiva, Leviathan, Ramuh, Phoenix, Bahamut, & Odin are the most prominent summons in FF series, so the fact that SMN in FFXIV can only summon half of them, and they even chose to add another bahamut over odin as the lvl 100 summon, feels disappointing.

I presume they chose a Demi to alternate between getting that and gemstones (Ramuh, Levi & Shiva) - realistically, I don't think they'd ever give both in the same expansion because it's a lot at once.

That being said, there's absolutely no reason to get yet another flavor of Bahamut.

[Ianmaru]

I have to agree - I get that they probably did it to save on resources but Odin and Alexander were right there...

if you really wanted to just update the bahamut model, could have just replace the current one and be like Lunar Bahamut and Solar Phoenix

yess if they have simply upgraded bahamut & phoenix, it would have been less ridiculous than having 2 bahamuts (still disappointing though, but better)
I also agree adding the 3 summons might be resource heavy and thus its unlikely for us to finally get them, but looking at how they used their resource on something no one asked for is painful :')

People really needed to accept that FF XIV Summoner would never be the same as FF XI Summoner or summoners from other main titles with dozens of summons years ago. Job Design is tightly knit to Lore in this game, and those people actually reading Job Quests know that in the world of FF XIV, the amount of primal aether a summoner can bind is limited.
...(Cont.)

I'm a lore enthusiast myself, and I can say that saying we cant have them because of the lore is a weak argument.
I remember on one job quest the npc told us that if the primal wouldnt answer our call then we cant summon them. iirc they wouldnt answer because they didnt find us worthy to be answered. it was back then before we beat the ultima weapon. now we already beat two of the eldest primals, it should be a good reason for them to rethink our worth. not even need a retcon. just say it in future job quest how they changed their mind and choose to answer our call now.
tbh i dont remember anything about the 3 egi limits. if its a thing then its already broken by how we technically have 4 egis with carbuncle. and again, can simply be written in the next future job quest that since we've absorbed Adbert we now have our egi limit doubled or something, which makes it possible for us to have 7 egis.

And it makes no sense that we can't summon Odin nor Alexander because of the reason you mentioned, and yet can summon something we've never seen (nor even existed) before.
Sure you can make up story as to how its possible, in this case you think its because of dynamis yada yada which is plausible enough. but then if you can make up story to make summoning of solar bahamut is possible, why cant you also make up story to make summoning of odin possible?

Primal Odin is the sword, not the cavalry knight. the lore maker can simply make up a story how we manage to summon the Odin sword, and gameplay-wise we ourselves turn into the cavalry knight by wielding the odin and do one hit huge zantetsuken damage finisher style skill.

and about not expecting stuff from other games to stay true, its about job identity. its not the same as tank SAM or DPS DRK from ffxi. Also if in most of other FF games SMN can summon all the prominent primals, but the SMN in this game can't, then the SMN in this game is incomplete.

[RicaRuin]

This is news to me; do you have those sources on hand?

The only thing I remember from reading interviews was that the presence of Phoenix's aether in the Calamity (alongside Bahamut's) was why we were able to attune to them, nothing about that being related to the three egi limit or us having technically gotten Bahamut and Phoenix as Egis before getting the other three. The whole reasoning with the Trance was specifically to get around the Egi limit.

(The interview I'm referencing is this one; I don't know if it's the original, but has the explanation about Phoenix https://www.4gamer.net/games/199/G019924/20210810055/ )

This is meant as an honest question, I should clarify, I'm not trying to make some accusation that you're lying. I just never came across that information, and I've been generally frustrated by the lack of given lore explanation for why we can summon Bahamut and Phoenix egis despite the limit. If the devs have actually answered that question, I'd definitely like to finally have the answer (even if I'll admit I don't particularly like the "we already had egis in us" answer, it's at least an actual answer!)

I admit there's some of my interpretation in there but as we know that a) there's a limit of Egis/aether one can have and b) we have absorbed the resident aether of Phoenix and Bahamut, I think that it's reasonable to assume that it filled the limit 'faster' than expected.