Another Bahamut? Why not Odin? (SMN 7.0 job action PLL feedback)

[rawker]

This wouldn't be an issue should Bahamut and Phoenix are not treated as special summons. Also, this wouldn't also be an issue if the pet management were not taken away from the job.

The formula was already there: you started off summoning Carbuncle, then learned to summon the Egi's... then the trances... Logical evolution of the job should've been being able to summon the primals as a trance of the Egis.. but no. EW SMN happened.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I'm kinda disappointed too for the SMN. An another Bahamut could have been something else. Odin and Alexander are Optionnal bosses so it's understandable why we will probably never got those, but Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva are mandatory bosses, that's why most people think we should get them at some point which actually make sense.

They also round out our elemental wheel… we have fire, earth & wind, with them we would have water, lightning and ice. And I like someone else’s idea of having astral/umbral phases as well, and possibly being able to choose which demi you use next. The basic rotation would remain the same most likely… demi, 3 gems, demi, 3 gems, demi… and adding summons that could reuse the gem buttons adds new actions without button bloat. It also leaves the door open to get other triads of summons in the future.

I understand that some might think adding Levi-Ramuh-Shiva doesn’t add anything to complexity. And I’m sure there are ways that more complexity could be worked into their inclusion. But even if it’s just having them there, with their models, their attacks, their animations, while essentially giving the same potencies as the original gem set so as not to upset the all-important 2 minute meta (sigh), that still adds a lot more variety and flavor to the job. It would make the job feel more complete to me at least. And definitely more fun!

Pictomancer is going to have a full elemental spell kit from the looks of it. I want that for Summoner too. The lore reasons why we can’t have mostly been explained away at this point, it wouldn’t take much to justify them. Obviously I’m one of those who likes the job design of new SMN, and I enjoy playing it, I just think they need to build on it further. We need more gems before demis!

[TabrisOmbrelame]

They also round out our elemental wheel… we have fire, earth & wind, with them we would have water, lightning and ice. And I like someone else’s idea of having astral/umbral phases as well, and possibly being able to choose which demi you use next. The basic rotation would remain the same most likely… demi, 3 gems, demi, 3 gems, demi… and adding summons that could reuse the gem buttons adds new actions without button bloat. It also leaves the door open to get other triads of summons in the future.

I understand that some might think adding Levi-Ramuh-Shiva doesn’t add anything to complexity. And I’m sure there are ways that more complexity could be worked into their inclusion. But even if it’s just having them there, with their models, their attacks, their animations, while essentially giving the same potencies as the original gem set so as not to upset the all-important 2 minute meta (sigh), that still adds a lot more variety and flavor to the job. It would make the job feel more complete to me at least. And definitely more fun!

Pictomancer is going to have a full elemental spell kit from the looks of it. I want that for Summoner too. The lore reasons why we can’t have mostly been explained away at this point, it wouldn’t take much to justify them. Obviously I’m one of those who likes the job design of new SMN, and I enjoy playing it, I just think they need to build on it further. We need more gems before demis!

We need a Shiva as a new form. Because you become Shiva, you don't "summon" it lore wise

[OgruMogru]

We need a Shiva as a new form. Because you become Shiva, you don't "summon" it lore wise

fast forward to 8.0 and we get Channeler as a new job and it's basically monk but they get the summon transformation fantasy instead of stance/form changing and Smn gets a 3rd Bahamut wearing a little propeller hat.

[rawker]

the magia board could have been a great addition to summoning. If only, we had egi versions for all the elements, have them trance so that the full version of the primal is summoned, then gave us favor... When a certain combination is made, we get to summon either Bahamut of Phoenix. Oh well..

[wereotter]

don't feel like wading through 16 pages to see if this has already been mentioned

why no Odin? Because of how Odin exists in the lore of this game. It's nor a proper summon/primal but exists as a piece of cursed equipment. This is why every time you fight Odin in the shroud, it takes on the appearance of an actual player.

why no Shiva? Same answer, because of how the lore surrounding her summoning exists in the game. She required a human vessel to enable her summoning. This was true when Ysale invoked her in Heavensward and remained true when Rhyne invoked her on The First, and even there her influence was so strong that Rhyne had trouble controlling her.

I'd have preferred we get Alexander rather than a second Bahamut, but even then Alexander by the game's lore decided to deactivate himself to keep his power from being abused, so likely wouldn't be keen to answer our call to summon him

[Raikai]

don't feel like wading through 16 pages to see if this has already been mentioned

why no Odin? Because of how Odin exists in the lore of this game. It's nor a proper summon/primal but exists as a piece of cursed equipment. This is why every time you fight Odin in the shroud, it takes on the appearance of an actual player.

why no Shiva? Same answer, because of how the lore surrounding her summoning exists in the game. She required a human vessel to enable her summoning. This was true when Ysale invoked her in Heavensward and remained true when Rhyne invoked her on The First, and even there her influence was so strong that Rhyne had trouble controlling her.

I'd have preferred we get Alexander rather than a second Bahamut, but even then Alexander by the game's lore decided to deactivate himself to keep his power from being abused, so likely wouldn't be keen to answer our call to summon him

Honestly, you don't really need a summon that's already ingame. Could've picked the dozens of summons from the franchise yet to be featured in FFXIV, create lore for it (or not lol) and add as the 3rd Demi. Or heck, even a brand new summon for XIV could probably be better than what we'll get.

[Flana]

why no Odin? Because of how Odin exists in the lore of this game. It's nor a proper summon/primal but exists as a piece of cursed equipment. This is why every time you fight Odin in the shroud, it takes on the appearance of an actual player.

Odin is not a mandatory primal. Not that Summoner lore means jack all anymore but that would be 'why.'

why no Shiva? Same answer, because of how the lore surrounding her summoning exists in the game. She required a human vessel to enable her summoning. This was true when Ysale invoked her in Heavensward and remained true when Rhyne invoked her on The First, and even there her influence was so strong that Rhyne had trouble controlling her.

I'd have preferred we get Alexander rather than a second Bahamut, but even then Alexander by the game's lore decided to deactivate himself to keep his power from being abused, so likely wouldn't be keen to answer our call to summon him

This is not how Summoning works for Summoner the job. You are not summoning the entity itself but a replicant based on the aetheric pattern you collected when the primal died. There is no reason you couldn't summon egi Shiva, just because the two people we've seen used their body as a catalyst doesn't mean you would have to do that. Alexander, like wise, can't just decide to no-show. If you have the pattern you can create an egi of anything. Summons are also created by the summoner, so even in a normal summoning Alexander can't just say no since it would be a brand new existence independent of the one we fought anyways. It is also in flux of optional and confirmed completed by the WoL because of Shadowbringers.

But again, Summoner lore doesn't mean jackall anymore and is riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies now. Nothing matters once SE decided the Summoner capstone was going to be fanfic bahamut. That will be the reason people give, but remember that it is BS. The lore is an inconsistent mess and none of it matters anymore.

[wereotter]

There is no reason you couldn't summon egi Shiva, just because the two people we've seen used their body as a catalyst doesn't mean you would have to do that.

it's part of the Eden quest that we HAD to use Ryne to summon Shiva else we would have just done it on our own.

But also if they're going to play fast and loose with the lore, regarding Alexander, one could argue we all were exposed to his aether when he broke out of his bubble in the Dravanian Hinterlands at the end of the 3.0 story. You don't have to actually go into the fights to be around him as the quests in the region have you going into his area of influence.

[Flana]

it's part of the Eden quest that we HAD to use Ryne to summon Shiva else we would have just done it on our own.

There is nothing in the Eden quest that said we had to use Ryne. We were going to do it the same way we had for every other primal up to that point. Ryne is the one that interrupted the process and wanted to incarnate as Shiva, because Ice is the most umbrally aspected element and she wanted to use it as a chance to try and get a better grasp on her powers. If you don't believe me you can check the quest yourself, its the first 5 minutes of this video: https://youtu.be/UUyPfIcIaU8

You can also check the questlog in game, it says the same thing. We were going to create a Shiva to destroy to revitalize Ice in the empty, but after hearing how Ysayle incarnated as Shiva, Ryne wanted to try the same thing. It was never part of the plan.