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  1. #91
    Player
    Cormorants's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2024
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Guydelot Guydelittle
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 90
    Specific ideas for Evocations: Evocations need to justify their casting times, but should not be so damaging as to make using them to wholly replace ruin spells the “correct” option. Additionally, since the baseline Ruin isn’t going anywhere in this hypothetical, they are permitted to have effects that have been gradually removed from PvE content.
    Carbuncle/Neutral - Evocation & Evoke Disaster: My basic idea for both of these is to have the same baseline potency as the ruin equivalent, but add a small damage over time effect - this allows more continuity with Scholar from baseline Arcanist, and, by virtue of not stacking, doesn’t mandate replacement of Ruin/Outburst while the DoT is up. Evoke Disaster should also ideally be a line or cone AoE so it has a greater difference in use case vs. Outburst.
    Ifrit - Infernal Nail & Infernal Breath: Infernal Nail would ideally be summoned in the hand and hurled like a javelin; Infernal Breath would ideally consist of the summoner channelling fire aether into their own chest/lungs for the “charging” portion of it’s animation.
    The nail would apply a bind effect and DoT to the creature impaled on it, though the bind would not affect bosses unless the summoner was their primary target at time of casting; something that shouldn’t happen in group content but does open up room for tactical nail use to claw victory from the jaws of defeat. Breath, meanwhile, would be a large, conical AoE for the same base damage as the Outburst equivalent plus a small DoT - trading away mobility and range for the potential to hit more targets if perfectly timed and angled.
    Titan - Landslide & Geocrush: Landslide would interrupt on hit and also apply a knockback to only those enemies who were targeting/aggroed onto the summoner - this is the same restriction I placed on burning nail to keep something that would be fun in solo content from being obnoxious in groups. It would, despite taking the normally single target Evocation slot, deal damage in a linear AoE. Geocrush would be a circular AoE that pulled foes toward its centre and rendered them heavy, potentially allowing the summoner to set up pins and go bowling in solo content.
    Garuda - Take Flight & Wicked Wheel: In keeping with Garuda having a clear identity as the fast/mobile summon, slipstream aside, these aren’t actually slow casts. Take Flight would be an OGCD forward dash in the vein of Hell’s Ingress, Wicked Wheel an AoE on self that applies a bleed DoT.
    If I were to make properly using your added mobility in this phase more rewarding, however, I would add a trait, Razor Plume, that spawns a razor plume when you use any damaging spell in this phase. This plume can be hurt by AoE attacks against the party and dies if struck, but if it survives until the end of the phase it will fly at the summoner’s current target and deal damage. This does potentially allow a summoner to leave Garuda phase early to “cash in” plumes.
    (0)

  2. #92
    Player
    ZnowKaizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2024
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Nevine Vale
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Don’t mind me. Replying here so I can find this thread quicker.
    (2)

  3. #93
    Player
    Eorzean_username's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    567
    Character
    Azephia Dawn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    I'm just going to post the same response in both of the 7.0 Summoner Threads that seem to have gained "front-page traction", because... even years later, I still honestly have no idea how SE actually gathers and transmits feedback, nor how they decide which Threads to "listen to" or "read".

    So at this point, I'm just taking the "spray and pray" approach.

    —————————————————————————————

    I would like to offer my own feedback on the presented 7.0 Summoner changes as a longtime player and fan of the Summoner Job — not just in FFXIV, but across Final Fantasy games in general.

    Solar Bahamut
    Lorewise and conceptually, I don't object to the idea of the WOL finally creating their own unique Summon, seemingly as a fusion of Hydaelyn / Solar / Crystal concepts and the "purified" concept of the "true", pre-Allagan Bahamut, as well as being an obvious contrast to the twisted "Lunar Bahamut" that was created by Fandaniel.

    I do, however, also find it "boring" to have Yet Another Bahamut — I do not enjoy being the "Bahamut Job", compared to the more classical identity of FF Summoner as the "Mythical Pokémon Collector".

    The excitement for me about Summoner was always seeking, finding, and discovering strange new creatures and beings to Summon... not obsessively fixating-upon one single Dragon.

    I would have personally been far more interested in seeing an addition such as Odin, Alexander, the Warring Triad, Zodiark, or... basically anything that's not Bahamut.

    SE, you are giving me severe "BAHAMUT FATIGUE". After having endless Bahamut shoved down Summoner's throat since Heavensward, Bahamut has stopped being "cool", and just become "exhausting". I am so sick of Bahamut and Dragons.

    Mechanically, I also think that it's very unexciting to simply add a ghostly palette-swap of the generic "1-minute-burst-phase" model.

    However, I am aware that there was a conscious design decision for the 7.0 design-period to avoid disrupting the current "rotational formulas". Therefore, I would say that my greater disappointment — if I "can't have everything" — is the choice of the new "burst-phase Summon", rather than the mechanic itself.

    In other words... if we were being given something like, "Demi-Bahamut / Demi-Phoenix, but with Alexander graphics"... then, I would be much less frustrated, because at least I would be able to feel like I'm still becoming "more of a Summoner", fantasy-wise.

    —————————————————————————————

    Lack of Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva
    I find this extremely disappointing — as in, "there are no words in the English language that sufficiently and accurately convey the extent of the disappointment that I felt upon seeing the Summoner portion of the 7.0 Jobs Livestream".

    I'm playing a Final Fantasy Summoner. I want to Summon things. That is what I do. I locate and collect the "Summonable Beings", and then I Summon them.

    Just like Blue Mage does not want to have nothing in its Spellbook but 50 Bahamut Skills, right? Of course, Blue Mage wants to collect a wide variety of Monster Skills, from a wide variety of different classic Final Fantasy creatures...

    ...Well, it's the same for Summoner. I want to collect a wide variety of Summons... not repeat the same tiny set ad-nauseum.

    I honestly struggle to believe that we're going to reach Summoner Level 100, and yet still not have as much variety in our Summons as that level 70 Allagan computer from the Stormblood Job Quests.

    —————————————————————————————

    Lack of rotational development
    Again, I understand that this is a conscious design decision for the 7.x period.

    However, I am nonetheless disappointed that Summoner's overall rotational flow and structure will be remaining as "automated" and simplistic in 7.0 as it has been during the 6.x period.

    I do not find the current Summoner model satisfying to repeat in prolonged use, and it makes me feel strangely "tired" of playing Summoner very quickly each time that I do... because, it feels like there is barely anything to really "learn" or "do", and the design is unusually and conspicuously "repetitive-feeling" to me, even amongst FFXIV Jobs.

    —————————————————————————————

    Continued development of Ruin and Fester
    I feel that the 6.0 redesign of Summoner rendered Ruin and Fester into thematically-incongruous and inappropriate "vestigial organs", which should be redesigned and reflavoured to better fit the new Summoner identity.

    I am disappointed to see that we're instead going to receive "Super-Ruin" and "Super-Fester".

    To me, this feels painfully uncreative, uninspired, and unexciting.

    —————————————————————————————

    I have further thoughts, but it seemed like too much to post inside the flow of a preexisting, ongoing thread.

    So I have also made a dedicated separate thread, wherein I elaborate in more detail on my thoughts about the 7.0 design direction for Summoner, and make a frankly-desperate attempt to propose a potential way to still salvage the situation within the limited development time that remains before 7.0 Release:

    Implementing Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva as simplistic "Aesthetic Swaps"
    (8)
    Last edited by Eorzean_username; 05-21-2024 at 08:00 PM.

  4. #94
    Player MagiusNecros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    3,205
    Character
    Bastilaa Shan
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Players wanted a second set of Gem summons in Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan with a Capstone summon of Odin or Alexander or something similar. Instead we are getting Bahamut Glamour as a capstone. It's pretty underwhelming since you can clearly see that outside of fancy Hydaelyn sigils and effects it has the same skeleton mapping as reg Bahamut.

    Design is rather similar to Stranger of Paradise Bahamut down to the Sword Wings. Of which there are 14 giving reference to not only FFXIV but also the Convocation so neat touch there. Given they did away with job quests because they I guess don't want to write out questlines and give their new writers something to do to build their writing skills there will be no real lore behind it much like with Endwalker skills.

    To add insult to injury Pictomancer has been given the ability to summon not only Moogle but a discount version of Madeen fused with a Moomba from FFIX. And to add onto that Blue Mage has Megaman'd at least 21 summon attacks in it's massive 120+ spell list. Makes you wonder who the real Summoner is here?

    Players that play Summoner have every right to be disappointed IMO. Unless Solar Bahamut is gonna be doing Quad damage of regular Bahamut I'm not seeing anything special.

    But such is the case with a lot of the new skills for Dawntrail. Another Fireball, another explosion, another Dragon, another finisher, etc.

    If I was designing Summoner it wouldn't be another Bahamut. It would be Alexander, Odin, or even something crazy like a double Zodiark and Hydaelyn summon.

    I don't understand the job design in this game sometimes.
    (10)

  5. #95
    Player
    Zarkovitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    668
    Character
    Sid Zarkovitch
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Blade Bahamut look like booty, They need to a different Ost to make him feel powerful or else it a lame pet.
    (1)

  6. #96
    Player
    Shenlao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Posts
    22
    Character
    Yulao Zhuen
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 31
    I mean if they wanted a crazy level 100 holy fuck to go wild over summon, Knights of the Round is right there and as a gameplay skill of getting a phase with 12 spells or you can clump some knight together to make it shorter but it almost makes itself.
    The spectacle, the job fantasy, the feeling of reaching a milestone ability.
    (4)

  7. #97
    Player
    Manamaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    102
    Character
    Manamaru Singen
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    My thoughts and opinions can be summed up into one image.


    Just with the way development cycle goes, they're probably already looking at 8.0 because when 6.0 dropped, they were already developing 7.0 and then people have been blowing up about feedback. Like how SMN should be having all kinds of summons; especially for the fact that we have been going from area to area beating up primals.
    SMN should keep their raise but make it more in line with Phoenix. Maybe rename it to something thematic and slightly different from "Phoenix Down". But it at least would have something to keep in line with it. The workings of ninja mudras and pictomancer's sketches and other job gauges shows that there is potential for more complexity or potential that could be there with going through the various summons and what attack phases could be made with that. Would it be antithetical to the 2 minute meta? Probably. But it would at least give variety and more of that feeling of actually being a summoner than the feeling of someone that went to Sharlayan for a course in summoning and dropped out half way through.
    (8)

  8. #98
    Player
    Metricasc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Adrian Montoya
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    my main gripe overall with 7.0 SMN really comes down to the lack of rotational development from its 6.x variant.

    I'll preface this to note that I've generally wanted SB/SHB SMN back over the current variant, as the rework for the class did perhaps the worst thing a rework did, being to oversimplify the class to the point that legacy SMN players just did not have a lot of value continuing to play the class. yes, it cleaned up the job identity to put more focus on the job fantasy and also was a good starting point to work from in a future expansion...

    and here is where the problems start for what we saw in the job actions;

    overall, aside from the extra buff post sol baha, and the attack that happens after searing wind, the loop itself was not all that expanded upon, if anything depending on if the searing wind follow up is a GCD or not, that removes using ruin III in the main loop. (its probs an oGCD given the blue aura and how quickly its done after wind in the trailer), it also looks to still stay in that weird quagmire of being in the middle on being a phys ranged or a caster with how few casts the class has STILL.

    looping demis going from Baha > phoenix > Baha to sol > Baha > sol > Phoenix really screams that this change was made for a 3 min job but then they had to rush it and cram it in so it can work within a 2 min meta once they knew that they didn't want to change much overall with 7.0,

    Overall way i see the current state of the class in 7.0. Class is firmly in the bin, esp with the prospect that a bunch of SMN players will likely pick up Pictomancer due to it being one of the new classes and looking a lot more mechanically interesting.
    (5)

  9. #99
    Player
    CasterSvarog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    80
    Character
    Kristina Svarog
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    If there’s one thing that personally frustrates me more then anything is how they had the perfect choice for a 7.0 SMN that could later be expanded upon in 8.0 (I’m really holding the devs to that)
    Add in Ramuh, Leviathan and Shiva on an even number cycle, and make Shinryu as the capstone summon instead. It’s already really cool looking, it’s not just another Bahamut, it would have been something unique with SMN instead of the same old summons we’ve always had in the series. And it would been a natural build up, what with the six elemental summons that Shinryu uses the attacks of, and the idea of the 7th Astral era building into a possible 8th Umbral calamity that was avoided.

    But instead we’re stuck with our totally original Demi (do not steal) possibly forever

    Otherwise, I’m still annoyed that the Topaz rites are still instant casts when they should have cast times, The job needs to have its feet planted more and be an actual caster. And that’s before factoring in how they should change all the summoning abilities from Spells into abilities. That would make there be more uses of Ruin, makes use of all the weave windows we have, and give the rotation some room to breathe, like dear god one single Gcd is not enough, makes the whole rotation blob together that makes the burst not feel special.
    Also Carby still being a fancy looking Cheerleader minion, but that’s an entirely new discussion there.
    (5)
    Last edited by CasterSvarog; 05-27-2024 at 01:46 PM.

  10. #100
    Player
    HikariKurosawa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    746
    Character
    Hikaru Kurosawa
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 95
    Bahamut is kinda the ultimate most iconic summon and has very frequently had multiple forms. I think it is cool. Leviathan Ramuh or Shiva don't really have the same impact. No other summon really does.
    (1)

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