Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

[Jynx]

Seems we wont ever be able to see eye to eye, considering I think the community can and will do a fine job of policing itself and you obviously don't.

Oh well I respect your difference of opinion I just don't agree with it I guess. From the sounds of your posts though you never seem to have had a group of friends to fall back on, you should really think about making some bonds in a MMO before you go on about how a MMO needs to only be friendly to PUGs.

It's a shame you think tighter restrictions are the way to go where I think more freedom is the way to go. Again no offense just pointing out how I think we both are seeing things.

*edit*

On that note I never had issues making parties in far out places even with "Princess" jobs like bard and Redmage being resistant to it. They either got with it or they got out, we survived and flourished without them while they went back to idle in town waiting for that "Perfect camp" that never came their way.

[Shurrikhan]

So in short, no the community cannot take care of itself and needs something to regulate it because it has proven time and again capable of great stupidity. I lose a lot more allowing such stupidity to come about, so I'm not going to support anything that tries to make the game lean in that direction.

WoW would seem a pretty poor example of this, given that it's community dictated the effective loss of freedom, not the mechanics. The mechanics were later adjusted to ensure loss of freedom.

Seems we wont ever be able to see eye to eye, considering I think the community can and will do a fine job of policing itself and you obviously don't.

Oh well I respect your difference of opinion I just don't agree with it I guess. From the sounds of your posts though you never seem to have had a group of friends to fall back on, you should really think about making some bonds in a MMO before you go on about how a MMO needs to only be friendly to PUGs.

It's a shame you think tighter restrictions are the way to go where I think more freedom is the way to go. Again no offense just pointing out how I think we both are seeing things.

I'd have to agree with Duelle that the community does not police itself well. However, it shouldn't have to. The game mechanics shouldn't function in such a way that things have overwhelming advantages and disadvantages between things that are supposed to be equal. The more complex the game, additionally, the harder these gaps are for players to distinguish, and therefore the gaps are often exaggerated and enforced by the community.

However, I also agree that the direction for any development should head for creation and freedoms, not "streamlining" those freedoms to make more lucrative choices but a far fewer total number. I've never seen something good come out of a company policing its game outside of small balances, and even then the question of net affect always seems to have been slightly left out -- and its effect usually on the minority of players or their setups. (That in itself might be pragmatic, but it's groin-shot to any idea of creativity or ingenuity.)

[Hyrist]

Jynx I want to give you a full respectful reply, but I'm out of time.

But I did want to note that you're extraditing the current and possible future leveling speed of the game. I've been playing the game casually, pushing my levels up on Archer for a good month now and I've not yet reached level 30.

I think we need to define what exactly constitutes 'normal' play here. Because what you are implying and what I am experiencing are heavily contrasted right now.'

I'll answer some of your questions and elaborate more once I get to my second job today (Luckily, it's at a computer.)

[Jynx]

I think we need to define what exactly constitutes 'normal' play here. Because what you are implying and what I am experiencing are heavily contrasted right now.'

I consinder "Normal play" Being able to put your foot forward and gain experience.

Leves give exorbant ammount. Hell I solod my Thaumaturg to 50 in a week without even playing very hard/long and avoiding leves. Once you hit 40 if you ever join a single party "Normal" play dictates you go to a stronghold and faceroll the place for extreme exp but even outside of strongholds the only real form of exp is mass murdering groups of enemies.

There is no challenging fights that are worth the fight and it's sad. Fights should be a tad more rewarding and complex than "Gather them up and ignite them!"

[Jinko]

I consinder "Normal play" Being able to put your foot forward and gain experience.

That could still mean anything, a small amount of xp is equal to a large one as long as you are making progress ? (I don't think so)

This is the problem some peoples idea of high levelling rate is completely different to someone else's, its all about perspective.

I don't think this games levelling curve is that bad considering we are only 1-50 and Yoshi-p already said they plan to slow it down (although that may have changed since the last players poll which was in favour of the current speed of levelling) I think all they need to do is address the power levelling in this game and it would be pretty good, there is no fun in continuous grinding.

[Asoka]

What i somewhat dont understand is that if majority of the people who played this game for awhile have couple of 50"s on standby for 2.0, and the level cap will most likely not be raised, are those majority just going breeze through it until their is nothing left to do? and hence what i hear others are saying about maybe their will be a new form of leveling in 2.0, whats the point if everyone got couple 50"s already, and then we will get hit with endgame stuff "only" in future updates from 2.0. I know others dont like ffxi reference but atleast it had a progression up to endagme, and you where more tuned to your character, and it felt rewarding in the end.

[Nazrakin]

What i somewhat dont understand is that if majority of the people who played this game for awhile have couple of 50"s on standby for 2.0, and the level cap will most likely not be raised, are those majority just going breeze through it until their is nothing left to do? and hence what i hear others are saying about maybe their will be a new form of leveling in 2.0, whats the point if everyone got couple 50"s already, and then we will get hit with endgame stuff "only" in future updates from 2.0. I know others dont like ffxi reference but atleast it had a progression up to endagme, and you where more tuned to your character, and it felt rewarding in the end.

I keep hearing people talk about FFXI's progression and low level content. I don't think there was really that much?

- Quest for your Chocobo pass - FFXIV will have a quest *and* you'll be able to breed a chocobo as a companion.
- Unlocking jobs - FFXIV already has these.
- Story missions - Again, FFXIV will have these
- AF gear Quest - FFXIV has this, as well as other job quests for spells.
- BCNMs - FFXIV will have these in the form of dungeons
- Limit Breaks - These were more a consequence of the level cap being raised, we haven't reached that point in FFXIV yet.

This is all the stuff that I can remember.

[Jynx]

That could still mean anything, a small amount of xp is equal to a large one as long as you are making progress ? (I don't think so)

Unless your going out of your way to gain slow exp it's pretty dang hard not to if your actually fighting stuff. Even outside of powerleveling you can still get some extremely fast exp.

I'm far from a hardcore player, and again I solod my thaumaturg to 50 without even doing many leves. Took me about a week and a half playing a 1-2 hours a day.

[Skies]

Unless your going out of your way to gain slow exp it's pretty dang hard not to if your actually fighting stuff. Even outside of powerleveling you can still get some extremely fast exp.

I'm far from a hardcore player, and again I solod my thaumaturg to 50 without even doing many leves. Took me about a week and a half playing a 1-2 hours a day.

Edit: Oh, jeesus, i'm BLIND, my bad. Let me re-edit everything

I call BS on that, and I fully disbelieve you. Yes, I do, absolutely. I've been doing that, i've DONE that. About as much playtime as you, look at my sig, look at my THM's level.
My experience calls you a liar.

For note, the previous post here, not relevant since you DID indeed give times, sorry if you saw it:

Italics mine.

Define to me, in REAL ACTUAL NUMBERS, what that means, please?
One's definition of how much daily (alright, perhaps weekly is better) playtime defines Hardcore can be pretty different. I want to ensure that your definition of 'easy' fits mine before I call you on your BS about levelling rapidly.

I mean, I almost quit the game in rage when I had to take my first class to 50 (it was lancer, before the major class reforms, I finished levelling it JUST in time for the class reform patch). It's been a gruelling experience to level my Archer or Thaumaturge, to the point that I'd rather pick up any of my many other games than do that. Take note those were majorly done on leves, which as you mentioned is possible.
My wild guess as to why i'm being so slow there is because, in comparison to people like you, I simply have a lot less weekly playtime, but you say you're not a 'hardcore' player, so now i'm confused.

[Hyrist]

Unless your going out of your way to gain slow exp it's pretty dang hard not to if your actually fighting stuff. Even outside of powerleveling you can still get some extremely fast exp.

I'm far from a hardcore player, and again I solod my thaumaturg to 50 without even doing many leves. Took me about a week and a half playing a 1-2 hours a day.

I'm sorry, Jynx. But I'm going to have to ask you specificly which camps were you using.

I can tell you right now, I play an average of 10 hours a week, on Archer, and those are most definatly not my experiences.

Your issues may be unique to Thamaturge, which, as they are a massive damage dealer apt at dishing large a mounts of AoE damage in great bursts, I can see that.

However, this is not relevant to my Archer, which my choices are, either sit and tank monsters and forego combos, which delays kill time. Or I kite to get my combos, which delays kill times, but is safer during Leves where I have to hunt groups.

Same thing with my Lancer, which I soloed nearly to 50, but it still took me a matter a months rather than weeks, as you are claiming.

Seeming the basis of your argument hinges on this assumption that all classes level at the speed of Thamaturge, which could be considered a class balance issue, not a leveling speed issue. I'm going to have a much tougher time respecting the full of your statements. I will, however, go back and still break your reply down into the bullet points I wish to respond to.