Positionals

[Sjol]

Or we could not do that, as it would result in 95% of jobs being homogeneous with regards to positionals.

As far as positionals, I don't care if you disagree. They are not identical.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/w...tional_actions

This is why no one should have tried to spin the term against me.

Sorry, what are we supposed to be taking away from that link?

[Turtledeluxe]

Sorry, what are we supposed to be taking away from that link?

The fact it has 90% more likes than your post. And no, I'm not bragging about likes. I'm pointing out that you are willfully acting confused when plenty of other people clearly understand what the post says.
I suggest maybe trying to read it and understand that positional actions not identical.

Are the two of you trying to exhaust the daily post limit or something? "You're wrong" is not an argument. And positionals are not only defined by the direction the attack goes in, nor the potency buff they provide. Read the descriptions.

I'm not responding to any more posts as the ones you have provided read like concessions. have fun. And no that does not mean I'm not responding to the thread, it means I'm no longer discussing this particular line of thought. You can spam the whole thread misusing words. I'm not the word police and I've already made more than earnest efforts to help you understand.

[Boblawblah]

The fact it has 90% more likes than your post. And no, I'm not bragging about likes. I'm pointing out that you are willfully acting confused when plenty of other people clearly understand what the post says.
I suggest maybe trying to read it and understand that positional actions not identical.

Are the two of you trying to exhaust the daily post limit or something? "You're wrong" is not an argument. And positionals are not only defined by the direction the attack goes in, nor the potency buff they provide. Read the descriptions.

I'm not responding to any more posts as the ones you have provided read like concessions. have fun. And no that does not mean I'm not responding to the thread, it means I'm no longer discussing this particular line of thought. You can spam the whole thread misusing words. I'm not the word police and I've already made more than earnest efforts to help you understand.

likes? it's a wiki page...am I missing something?

[Sjol]

The fact it has 90% more likes than your post. And no, I'm not bragging about likes. I'm pointing out that you are willfully acting confused when plenty of other people clearly understand what the post says.
I suggest maybe trying to read it and understand that positional actions not identical.

Are the two of you trying to exhaust the daily post limit or something? "You're wrong" is not an argument. And positionals are not only defined by the direction the attack goes in, nor the potency buff they provide. Read the descriptions.

I'm not responding to any more posts as the ones you have provided read like concessions. have fun. And no that does not mean I'm not responding to the thread, it means I'm no longer discussing this particular line of thought. You can spam the whole thread misusing words. I'm not the word police and I've already made more than earnest efforts to help you understand.

I can absolutely be confused even when other people get it. I get that you're feeling attacked which wasn't my intent. Sorry for my contribution to that. I also don't think I've ever made the argument straight up that "you're wrong", but I could be wrong.

I looked at the link and the skills are different, but the only difference between hitting the positional and not was a potency increase. I didn't think anyone was trying to get rid of the underlying skills, but just the "+30 potency when used from flank". There could be something like guaranteed crit, or added debuff, but it doesn't appear to be one on the existing skills per the link you sent.

As far as concessions, I've tried to find common ground, though I'm very much getting the idea that people aren't terribly interested in that. At this point I've said that I agreed with you or could see things your way multiple ways while still stating that liking or not liking positionals was a preference. And sorry to still be confused, but I'm not sure why concessions, compromise, and understanding would be a bad thing.

[Turtledeluxe]

I can absolutely be confused even when other people get it. I get that you're feeling attacked which wasn't my intent. Sorry for my contribution to that. I also don't think I've ever made the argument straight up that "you're wrong", but I could be wrong.

I looked at the link and the skills are different, but the only difference between hitting the positional and not was a potency increase. I didn't think anyone was trying to get rid of the underlying skills, but just the "+30 potency when used from flank". There could be something like guaranteed crit, or added debuff, but it doesn't appear to be one on the existing skills per the link you sent.

As far as concessions, I've tried to find common ground, though I'm very much getting the idea that people aren't terribly interested in that. At this point I've said that I agreed with you or could see things your way multiple ways while still stating that liking or not liking positionals was a preference. And sorry to still be confused, but I'm not sure why concessions, compromise, and understanding would be a bad thing.

It's not that I feel attacked, moreso that I feel like you may have the other user who is questioning my posts on ignore. I was responding to both of you but didn't quote their post, so admittedly it was probably confusing. But also the "you're wrong" post is just a few posts up so I kind of assumed you'd see it since you also entered the discussion, which would require viewing all my other responses and the posts addressing me. I think post 166 ventures back into the homogeneity discussion and there's simply nothing more to say about it, as I said. But I'm not angry or attacked, no worries. And similarly to you I've never once shut down anyone augmenting the positionals. I think enhancing them would be great. I think encounter design should change as well. I just don't think it's cool to throw it back in people's faces "you're homogenizing melee" to me or anyone and betrays a lack of understanding of what homogenization even is or what positionals even do in the current state.

[HikariKurosawa]

It's not that I feel attacked, moreso that I feel like you may have the other user who is questioning my posts on ignore. I was responding to both of you but didn't quote their post, so admittedly it was probably confusing. But also the "you're wrong" post is just a few posts up so I kind of assumed you'd see it since you also entered the discussion, which would require viewing all my other responses and the posts addressing me. I think post 166 ventures back into the homogeneity discussion and there's simply nothing more to say about it, as I said. But I'm not angry or attacked, no worries. And similarly to you I've never once shut down anyone augmenting the positionals. I think enhancing them would be great. I think encounter design should change as well. I just don't think it's cool to throw it back in people's faces "you're homogenizing melee" to me or anyone and betrays a lack of understanding of what homogenization even is or what positionals even do in the current state.

Care to explain how removing or making positionals exclusive to one or two melee jobs would contribute to "homogenization" of jobs in this game? Can you even explain specific examples of homogenization in this game? Like, you say that flank and rear positionals are all different because they are tied to different abilities that happen at different points in each job's rotation, yet will probably go on to say that every job is shifting to a 2 minute burst window? Guess what, all 2 minute cooldowns are extremely different in this game and it just makes sense for the burst windows to line up from a gameplay perspective. It's called teamwork.

So please I really would like to hear your valid explanation in specific detail about how jobs are being homogenized, how positionals have anything to do with that, and how limiting positionals to monk and dragoon would further homogenize melee jobs.

If anything is homogenized, it is the fact that there are positionals on all melee dps. Personally I think the homogenization of jobs in this game is completely made up and baseless, but I'd love to hear your perspective in detail because all you've done up till now is throw around buzzwords and wikipedia articles that don't even support your position.

[Turtledeluxe]

Care to explain how removing or making positionals exclusive to one or two melee jobs would contribute to "homogenization" of jobs in this game? Can you even explain specific examples of homogenization in this game? Like, you say that flank and rear positionals are all different because they are tied to different abilities that happen at different points in each job's rotation, yet will probably go on to say that every job is shifting to a 2 minute burst window? Guess what, all 2 minute cooldowns are extremely different in this game and it just makes sense for the burst windows to line up from a gameplay perspective. It's called teamwork.

So please I really would like to hear your valid explanation in specific detail about how jobs are being homogenized, how positionals have anything to do with that, and how limiting positionals to monk and dragoon would further homogenize melee jobs.

If anything is homogenized, it is the fact that there are positionals on all melee dps. Personally I think the homogenization of jobs in this game is completely made up and baseless, but I'd love to hear your perspective in detail because all you've done up till now is throw around buzzwords and wikipedia articles that don't even support your position.

All of your questions have been explained and the article completely proves the point. I'm not repeating myself, as I said.

Take it up with all the other players who understood what I said just fine.

I think you are in strong denial if you think people are just making up job homogenization..and aside from that your collective posts don't encourage me that further discussion would actually go anywhere.

In fact, your posts in general give me the impression you are a Xenosys stan. And here's my hot take-- no one should listen to Xenosys ever bc his love of the game is actually his love of cheating his way to a worlds first ultimate clear. Why the dev team or anyone would listen to him about job design is nuts, imo.

[HikariKurosawa]

All of your questions have been explained and the article completely proves the point. I'm not repeating myself, as I said.

Take it up with all the other players who understood what I said just fine.

I think you are in strong denial if you think people are just making up job homogenization..and aside from that your collective posts don't encourage me that further discussion would actually go anywhere.

In fact, your posts in general give me the impression you are a Xenosys stan. And here's my hot take-- no one should listen to Xenosys ever bc his love of the game is actually his love of cheating his way to a worlds first ultimate clear. Why the dev team or anyone would listen to him about job design is nuts, imo.

So you can't do it? Good to know.

I think you are strongly delusional if you actually think job homogenization exists in this game. You can't even explain how it exists. It's a buzz word you like to throw around because it justifies your unhappiness with the game. Maybe you are just jaded and incapable of seeing the game for what it really is? Who knows. You're incapable or unwilling to explain your position so it's irrelevant anyway. Maybe you should just stop posting if you are unwilling to elaborate or state your position.