Positionals

[HikariKurosawa]

There are people who use scripts to automate their rotations and addons to resolve every mechanic in each encounter for them. This enables them to focus entirely on standing in flank or rear which makes their parse look better than 99% of the playerbase.

These are the people who really want positionals to stay.

[Turtledeluxe]

Yes, doing high damage whilst maximizing uptime in melee range is the point of melee jobs. The fact that none of the above actually describes positionals should tell you why there exists melee players who are drawn to the role but would enjoy it more without a clunky mechanic with zero in-game feedback.



Design jobs for the different people enjoying the same role, not for gatekeepers or players who want to homogenize jobs within the same role. Hopefully viper or the melee after that will have no positionals.

You keep posting this fallacy of equivocation when I've already explained there is a difference between consistency and homogeny. Maintaining a set of jobs with the same traits is not homogeny. No one is homogenizing melee jobs.

However what you are doing, adding another notch into all jobs being the same, is in fact homogeny at work.

If you don't want positionals, simply don't play melee. It's just that simple. If they're so negligible and so irrelevant, don't use them and stop making threads.

And if Viper doesn't have them, then great, play that. Your dps is probably going to be lower so don't bother us about parsing. Although everyone ITT has claimed this isn't motivated by effortless dps, so I'm sure you would be more than ok with Viper having inherently lower DPS.

[WaxSw]

I wasn't specific enough in my original post. When I said EW in particular feels anti melee is because there's way too many moments in bosses or even trash where you're just constantly forced to stand out of range until a mechanic is over or you have to run out of point blank aoes as soon as you try to do some damage.

There were more in the past, if anything EW is too melee friendly. Almost every raid has mechanics that can be solved in melee range or at best require minimal disconect, there was barely any necessity for melee uptime strats and the hitbox is so large compared to previous expansions it has become comical:


Sb wall boss hitbox

EW wall boss hitbox

In fact you can also look at parses and see melees having the same uptime as the physical rangeds which dont have to care about that.

It's frustrating and just feels like bad game design.

Its called a challenge, something that the game should offer more often and its not even a hard one. If you want the high melee dps WORK FOR IT, if you want perfect uptime and no positionals you already have a role for that in physical rangeds. Sorry but this points sounds like skill issue and wanting to change an entire role to compensate for that.

It's been mentioned many times in this thread but it's pretty pathetic when people are defending positionals as some engaging form of gameplay. If we had better Job design and more interesting rotations Noone would bat an eye at the removal of positionals.

But we don't have that design so its pretty normal and reasonable that people fight for one of the few bits of job challenge remaining to stay. It's also something that has characterized melees since ARR and some people like it, in fact we used to have jobs with much more positionals than now with better design too.

Outside of a couple of rogue abilities, wow never had positionals on anything and it's never been an issue.

WOW is not FFXIV

People Def don't play melee to do flank and rear attacks either Lol

There are plenty of those in the MNK playerbase, also even if their reason to play melee is not positionals that doesn't mean they can't enjoy those bits of extra work they can put to get a better output, there are plenty of people like that in this thread.

Indicators

I agree with that tho

[Asari5]

so, we positional enjoyers are pathetic and cheater? really levelheaded of you. i guess that says a lot about some people here.

other than that im really not sure what people mean with the fights arent made for positionals. other than like one or two bosses where the jumping around really gets annoying its fine.
i remember people complaing about barbarizia but with true north there were barely any issues in doing positionals. its really hard to take people serious.
do you expect the bosses to turn around to align perfectly for your positionals? would that be a fight made for positionals?
doesnt the joy in a game with different classes come from using your skillset (including positionals) as good as possible for whatever the bosses throw at you? that needs flexibility but it means you actually play a game. i know we lost many of these aspects in the name of streamlining everything to the point of it becoming bland.
but i still want to figure out myself when its better to reposition myself and when i better use true north. and when there is a mistake from the tank or the boss turning suddenly around then i have to adapt.... its an mmo there should be stuff in there which need at least some decision making and flexibility.
uptime management falls pretty much in the same category but due to giant hitboxes that aspect is gone.
what is wrong about wanting to keep the last remaing bits of this aspect?

i started back in HW and the thing making me fall in love with this game was the final boss in the lvl 57 dungeon as monk. dancing around the boss avoiding his many aoe attacks while keeping uptime and also trying to hit my positionals on EVERY global cooldown... it was amazing

[Turtledeluxe]

what is wrong about wanting to keep the last remaing bits of this aspect?

The same as much of the other job feedback since STB**, which is to reduce all jobs to non thought.

And yes, I said it.

[ZiraZ]

so, we positional enjoyers are pathetic and cheater? really levelheaded of you. i guess that says a lot about some people here.

other than that im really not sure what people mean with the fights arent made for positionals. other than like one or two bosses where the jumping around really gets annoying its fine.
i remember people complaing about barbarizia but with true north there were barely any issues in doing positionals. its really hard to take people serious.
do you expect the bosses to turn around to aöign perfectly for your positionals? would that be a fight made for positionals?
doesnt the joy in a game with different classes come from using your skillset (including positionals) as good as possible for whatever the bosses throw at you? that needs flexibility but it means you actually play a game. i know we lost many of these aspects in the name of streamlining everything to the point of it becoming bland.
but i still want to figure out myself when its better to reposition myself and when i better use true north. and when there is a mistake from the tank than i have to adapt.... its an mmo there should be stuff in there which need at least some decision making and flexibility.
uptime management falls pretty much in the same category but due to giant hitboxes that aspect is gone.
what is wrong about wanting to keep the last remaing bits of this aspect?

He's just our local remove everything brainlet that won't stop shitposting until every job plays like lvl 1 ROG, but also doesn't even play the game so anything difficult must be cheating. did you know that using Kaiten properly required 3rd party tools? no human brain could keep up.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I enjoy having a few positionals when playing melee ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I find them to add some fun and a little distinction from other tab-target-style MMOs.

I'd like them to stay, and I'd enjoy melee less were they gone.

[Aravell]

The forums really can turn into a clown show at any moment, huh?

It just so suddenly went from a clash of preferences to "If you like positionals, you're pathetic and you also probably cheat".

[VentVanitas]

don't worry guys, SE will totally give jobs more complexity in the place of positionals if they remove them. just ignore that they've literally never done that for any removed system from jobs.

[CelestiCer]

There are people who use scripts to automate their rotations and addons to resolve every mechanic in each encounter for them. This enables them to focus entirely on standing in flank or rear which makes their parse look better than 99% of the playerbase.

These are the people who really want positionals to stay.

I needed that laugh today, this is good xD !!