Positionals

[Sjol]

This age old debate tends to divide players between the ones that are more attached or have roots into action games, while it just annoys the ones with more classical rpg or tactical rpg affinities. It's cool to have jobs with demanding positionals, some with mild positionals, and some with no positionals.

1) Removing something without replacing is what SE is a champ at and only results in watering down the job system at the profit of fully focused encounter design.
2) Removing them is not a solution, and would alienate half of the melee dedicated population, even if they get replaced by something else.
3) Introducing new melee DPS jobs without positionals (new, therefore not alienating other job mains) should only come as an exchange for more intricate and complex rotations.
4) Focusing on melee DPS intricacies and complexity should come with the insurance that they also double down on ranged complexity because otherwise we're gone again for another expansion with huge debates with ranged proponents and melee proponents tearing each other apart on job difficulty and damage balance.

I agree with most of your points here and was glad to see this.

My personal frustration is that the current design of positionals feels bad. They feel tacked on with little rhyme or reason as if to exist to add some minor complexity to the job. Some of what I've heard is a sub set of players who don't mind positionals, but don't like how they're implemented now.

I hear you about not wanting the jobs made even simpler. There are certainly jobs that I go to when I'm brain dead and jobs I go to when I want a challenge.

I also would be okay with some jobs having positionals that only work in specific positions if they were designed better. *cough* backstab.

The frustrations outlined by a bunch of people are good ones both in favor and against. I think it's a difficult problem and little trust that SE will get it right.

[Aidorouge]

I honestly forget which abilities even have positional requirements most of the time, and when I do remember, it's usually in a fight where trying to land it would be suicide so I'm better off not trying it/using True North instead. I'm not gonna complain if positionals get removed, but I'm also not going to find their continued existence engaging and if it becomes more demanding, I just won't bother or continue to rely on True North.

[Sjol]

I honestly forget which abilities even have positional requirements most of the time, and when I do remember, it's usually in a fight where trying to land it would be suicide so I'm better off not trying it/using True North instead. I'm not gonna complain if positionals get removed, but I'm also not going to find their continued existence engaging and if it becomes more demanding, I just won't bother or continue to rely on True North.

I definitely think the positional information could be better indicated. I really hate the ability tool tips.

[Lyth]

It's important to ask yourself why you want to specifically play a melee job in contrast to a ranged one. The main reason is to add extra depth and challenge to fights by introducing a spatial constraint to your gameplay. That's why there was pushback against the hitbox sizes in the raid content that we've been seeing as of late. If the hitbox fills the arena, then you're removing that constraint, and you might as well be playing a ranged job at that point.

Positionals are another such constraint, in that they reduce the acceptable target area even further. So it's no longer enough to just know where a boss is going to be positioned in the arena, you also need to know how they orientate themselves on a GCD by GCD basis. And it can be very satisfying when you gain that additional layer of knowledge about a fight's 'choreography' and can translate that into a performance gain.

If none of this rings true with you, then melee isn't going to offer any appeal over a ranged one. If we remove all spatial constraints on melee, then you're left with a ranged job. And we have lots of those already (more than melee). We've seen a steady simplification around melee gameplay in the name of making the role more accessible, in terms of reducing positional counts and making missed postionals less punishing (potency loss rather than breaking combos). I think if you erode it further, the category might as well not exist.

[Sjol]

If none of this rings true with you, then melee isn't going to offer any appeal over a ranged one. If we remove all spatial constraints on melee, then you're left with a ranged job. And we have lots of those already (more than melee). We've seen a steady simplification around melee gameplay in the name of making the role more accessible, in terms of reducing positional counts and making missed postionals less punishing (potency loss rather than breaking combos). I think if you erode it further, the category might as well not exist.

I'll admit rphys is a weird play style where most ranged jobs in other MMOs have cast bars. And I'm not against rphys having "cast" bars, so that's an option for me in terms of distinguishing roles. I'm also for smaller hit boxes as part of the difference is tracking the boss more closely.

All that said, I find I have to move more as a ranged attacker due to being further away from the boss so much so that tend to stay pretty close to melee range regardless. Another difference that I've seen in various games is that ranged classes get hit with specific kinds of mechanics to force movement. I'm not sure how much that happens here, but it's definitely a possibility to build into the encounters.

[Ardeth]

My sentient has been the same since I started playing 11 years ago.

I don't like them. I don't generally play Jobs that have them. Over time, they have been stripped away more and more. Just rip the bandage off.

But I don't like them because they're awkward. They don't add anything to me as a player. And I honestly wish I had the confidence of the people who blatantly ignore them. I know my positionals, but in standard gameplay, I don't like them. They just add more things to get toxic about in groups. Tanks spinning bosses, etc. It just muddys the waters. I don't feel good doing them. Just get rid of them.

[Isurith]

You do realize that any existing complexity in RPR's rotation is due to the existence of Death's Design, right? It's the entire basis of Double/Triple Enshroud.

I think I pretty much know how my main works after 3 tier & 1 ultimate on it. EDIT : Not to say that triple shroud is like... incredibly niche and isn't a practical rotation.
That doesn't mean I like the pseudo-dot condition. If AT LEAST SoD gave 10 red gauge it would already feel better. But as it is now, it's just bland.

To be fair, whole reaper is on the bland side. I like it very much for the job fantasy and visuals, but gameplay-wise it could've been far better.

But we are getting out of topic.

[VeolE]

Hello everyone, since the launch of EW in particular I've been finding boss design is heavily unfavorable to melee in general and especially for positionals. The Alliance raids are the number one culprit for this and it gets so frustrating I just stop caring. Either get rid of positionals or change boss design to accommodate it better. Positionals feel outdated and pointless as they typically only give a small potency increase and with the huge hit boxes and constant turning of current boss design it's more of a hassle then anything.

[Lucyfurr1988]

Hello everyone, since the launch of EW in particular I've been finding boss design is heavily unfavorable to melee in general and especially for positionals. The Alliance raids are the number one culprit for this and it gets so frustrating I just stop caring. Either get rid of positionals or change boss design to accommodate it better. Positionals feel outdated and pointless as they typically only give a small potency increase and with the huge hit boxes and constant turning of current boss design it's more of a hassle then anything.

the easiest expansion to play a melee dps and people are still moaning....

[Jeeqbit]

As a tank main, I used to not like the idea of positionals.

But I mean, when you're playing a DPS, you're not doing tank things and a lot of things have been stripped away (like keep-up buffs), to the point where doing positionals is easier to focus on, and even desired because of how boring farming expert gets on the simpler rotations like tanks, healers and ranged DPS.

It's just a little thing to make you feel like you played well. If there's no difference between trying and not trying then everyone will be playing the game blindfolded because of how you can do your rotation without thinking or concentrating. The result is you just get hit by simple mechanics, not because you can't do them, but because you fell half-asleep doing your rotation.