Positionals

[Gralna]

yea, why not, let's also add the pvp auto combo on a single button. I mean, at the end of the day it's just pressing a button, is it really anymore difficult to press other buttons. While we're at it, remove melee range, it's not really any more difficult to be in melee range as out of it. Let's also get rid of unavoidable raidwide dmg too, since it's minimal and auto healed anyway before next one. Then also get rid of aoes that don't kill outright, there's no point to avoid them as is. Do this for all difficulties of content, I'm sure it'll have no negative consequences whatsoever.

[Evergrey]

Missing a positional isn't the world.
Especially in larger group activities like Alliance Raids. The boss will go down anyways and the time it does won't really be noticable if you miss a couple or so.
You still do damage, just not as much but still more than if you didn't hit it at all.

Before I played Melee DPS (played tank from ARR up to Endwalker) the thought of having to position for attacks felt bothersome to me.
But I am having no issues with it at all. In fact it just makes the combat less boring as if I want to perform the best I have to pay attention and stay awake.
That was one thing I didn't really like playing the tank, to always stand still, unless avoiding AoEs.
And for that I always liked fights where there was a lot going on so I had to "dance", as I called it.

[LilimoLimomo]

My opinion on positionals is that I think they can be an interesting design element when used thoughtfully, but unfortunately they've been ham-fisted into every single melee class as a careless afterthought. That is, with one exception: Monk is doing it right, with positionals being one of the biggest mechanics for the class. Because they're ominipresent, they give the class a distinct feel to play, that of a close-range fighter that is constantly strategically repositioning.

But all the other jobs suffer from that ham-fisting. For example, when I think of the job fantasy of playing a Dragoon, it's all about doing big jumps and attacking from above. Doing a slight step to the side so that I can attack from the side instead of the back? That doesn't have anything to do with the Dragoon class fantasy. When was the last time you saw Estinien do anything close to that?

And then there's Samurai, a class that very explicitly draws from the romanticized version of everyone's favorite bushido-following warriors. And yet, in opposition to the samurai narrative that the game seems to draw from in every other way, the design of the gameplay explicitly asks Samurai to attack their targets from behind. In the mythos of the Samurai, that's dishonorable...

And of course, then we have Rogue/Ninja. I love when the Rogue backstabs for high damage; it's such an iconic and fun maneuver...but it's mysteriously absent from FF14. There's no attack that makes the big numbers happen when done from behind. Instead, Rogue/Ninja has Trick Attack (which gets a forgettable increase of 100 potency when done from behind) and its other positionals are just the same as the other melee classes. And because every other class has those same positionals, the positionals that Rogue does have in their combos don't feel like a Rogue thing and instead just feel like a melee thing.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to there being technically challenging or engaging elements to playing melee classes, but this ain't it. Melee classes deserve better than to all have positionals crammed into their move lists just because the devs couldn't think of any additional ways to raise the skill ceiling for melee classes that were actually relevant to their job fantasies.

[Lyth]

In Final Fantasy I, Black Mage spells have no cast time. They deserve better than to have cast times tacked on to all their spells, just because the devs couldn't think of any other way to raise the skill ceiling for magical ranged.

The core reason why you'll advocate for this is because the follow-up becomes: if melee dps no longer have positionals, shouldn't casters do more damage? Shouldn't we move to a double caster comp as default?

[rawker]

In Final Fantasy I, Black Mage spells have no cast time.

Using the same argument, FF VIII had cast times when summoning Guardian Forces.. Look at FFXIV SMNs.

[Tint]

Using the same argument, FF VIII had cast times when summoning Guardian Forces.. Look at FFXIV SMNs.

SMN is the best argument against positionals.

When we can have a mage without casts then we sure can have a melee without positionals.

NIN originally was released without them. The Mudra system was supposed to be "their" thing. Positionals only got added in HW.

[Lyth]

...

SMN still does have some casts, though, much the same as some melee dps have fewer positionals while others have more. Those comparisons on cast times and positionals then get used for players to argue in favor of their preferred job doing more damage than everyone else.

I think it's a mistake to design a role around people who hate playing it.

[rawker]

SMN is the best argument against positionals.

So what are BRD, DNC, MCH to you? All mages should have cast times in their spell casting. Should a ranged DPS have no cast times then it is better off as a Ranged Physical DPS.

[Lucyfurr1988]

SMN is the best argument against positionals.

When we can have a mage without casts then we sure can have a melee without positionals.

NIN originally was released without them. The Mudra system was supposed to be "their" thing. Positionals only got added in HW.

each melee other than monk has only 2-3 positionals iirc. smn has 3 casts per minute....

[SomeGuy22]

each melee other than monk has only 2-3 positionals iirc. smn has 3 casts per minute....

Hell, even MNK post rework has only two. The positional-heavy melee has less positionals than fuckin DRG now...