Positionals

[Kacho_Nacho]

Add more positionals please! (especially to Monk)

I'd like more positionals for monk also. I could then organize my action bars into flank and rear positionals.

And give me some juicy feedback when I hit them, because it's difficult to tell that currently.

Yes, please! Increase the number of postionals for monk, then provide obvious, visual feedback telling us if we hit or flub a positional.

[Print_Screen]

At the end of the day, people should play jobs because they enjoy the rpg fantasy of it, not because it doesn't have an annoying gameplay mechanic. Alienating people who want to play samurai or ninja is far worse than alienating people who want to move left or right for half a second once or twice in their entire rotation.

I will just not do positionals regardless and the overall level of play will be lower in the community because it's simply not fun. I'm not going to play a job I don't want to play just because it doesn't have positionals. I will just pretend the job I want to play doesn't have positionals and nobody will notice because they are going to be too focused on their own gameplay.

At the end of the day, people should play a job for whatever reason they want. Its a videogame.

I like positionals. And to me, fun gameplay is more important than aesthetics. Why would the preferences of positional enjoyers be less important than the preferences of positional dislikers?

[CelestiCer]

Functionally, Positionals encourage Non-Mandatory movement for Melees and how Tanks pull bosses. Removal only serves to simplify the game further. Hitting Positionals isn't hard to do, but landing them all the time? takes at least something. The Mathematical DPS gain/loss is negligible to not even account it as a game issue.

- Do Positionals gatekeep anyone?
No. Not from playing Melee jobs nor clearing Content as landing them is optional. The false conception that landing all Positionals mattering to clear x content = asinine.

- Do Positionals hold back Encounter Designs?
No. No proof that Dev's are & the past shown us that Square will make encounters/mechanics without taking into account if you can land positionals comfortably or at all. Managing/Wasting True North resources and thinking it matters is up to the players, even if the boss mindlessly teleports to the center of the arena.

- How much Fun is positionals?
This is subjective. For me? The thought of needing to do less for equal or more DPS output, isn't rewarding and is less Fun. If optional movement for tiny DPS gain isn't your cup of tea? great. Not for me. I care very little for Class fantasy after Square lawnmowed my Samurai's animations down to being a stabbing machine anyways. My Job is also dumb enough as it is. So I don't understand the obsessive fetishization many have on how optimally we all can collectively streamline XIV further in the hopes Square will replace anything we suggest to remove with something better... when they shown no track-record to me that they actually done so, but that's of course a lukewarm take.

- Conclusion?
Positional Topic is as non-issue as it is landing them all in Raids to me... i.e? about the last thing I'd worry about. Can it be better? Yes, though knowing Square, it probably wont? but its removal would erase that possibility completely. XIV has plenty of Gameplay/Job-issues to worry about in general. Positional removal is just another step down dunce-lane when Square ran multiple marathons through it already, mhm. I also don't like the idea of Tanks being encouraged to spin every Boss 360 degrees even more then it already is cause I care oh-so-much about my immersion...

[Andevom]

A step in the right direction is a clearer indication if you hit the positional correctly. Even just an asterisk after the HP damage number would go a long way in helping players know if they're properly executing the attack.

[mallleable]

What if they replaced postionals with directionals. Like you can have attacks that deal more damage while you are strafing or attacks that deal more damage while moving forward. This way, the positioning minigame is character relative, and will always be present no matter what shape the boss's hitbox is. A new UI element could be created to indicate what direction inputs you have active for visual clarity like how we have a cast bar. True North can can still exist for when you should not be moving.

[Lyth]

I think some roles just naturally attract different types of players. Tanks always have some potential to cause wipes. FFXIV has tried its hardest to design the anxiety out of tanking. You have auto-healing tanks who don't have to worry about losing aggro, coupled with auto-positioning bosses and an excess of defensive actions including invulns. And still, to this day, players talk about tankxiety and refuse to tank because of it.

If you're the sort of player who is actually determined to tank, then you never would have needed any such changes to get into the role in the first place. You'll wipe countless times and learn from your setbacks every time, because you naturally have thick skin and are driven to succeed. That's not something that can be taught.

Simplifying a role does not draw in new players who were not already determined to take up the mantle in the first place. Simplification only devalues their effort and devalues their experiences.

Melee DPS likewise draws in players who tend to be very obsessive about their performance. You'll find that solitary pixel that lets you maintain uptime, knowing that the slightest offset will instantly kill you. You'll stay on the boss until the very last instant before disengaging, to the point that you'll send your healers into a panic. And you'll know the fights to the point that you can recall every single movement and rotation the bosses make from memory.

And if that sounds like a horrible, awful way to play the game, then that's probably true - for you. No amount of change to the role will ever convince you to stick with it. You'll try it out, level it up, and then eventually drop it in favor of the roles you've naturally shown a preference towards in the past. After all, you didn't need any convincing to play them in the first place.

Design roles for the people who love it, not for the people who hate it.

[Reinha]

Melee DPS likewise draws in players who tend to be very obsessive about their performance. You'll find that solitary pixel that lets you maintain uptime, knowing that the slightest offset will instantly kill you. You'll stay on the boss until the very last instant before disengaging, to the point that you'll send your healers into a panic. And you'll know the fights to the point that you can recall every single movement and rotation the bosses make from memory.

Yes, doing high damage whilst maximizing uptime in melee range is the point of melee jobs. The fact that none of the above actually describes positionals should tell you why there exists melee players who are drawn to the role but would enjoy it more without a clunky mechanic with zero in-game feedback.

Design roles for the people who love it, not for the people who hate it.

Design jobs for the different people enjoying the same role, not for gatekeepers or players who want to homogenize jobs within the same role. Hopefully viper or the melee after that will have no positionals.

[Turtledeluxe]

Yes, doing high damage whilst maximizing uptime in melee range is the point of melee jobs. The fact that none of the above actually describes positionals should tell you why there exists melee players who are drawn to the role but would enjoy it more without a clunky mechanic with zero in-game feedback.



Design jobs for the different people enjoying the same role, not for gatekeepers or players who want to homogenize jobs within the same role. Hopefully viper or the melee after that will have no positionals.

You keep posting this fallacy of equivocation when I've already explained there is a difference between consistency and homogeny. Maintaining a set of jobs with the same traits is not homogeny. No one is homogenizing melee jobs.

However what you are doing, adding another notch into all jobs being the same, is in fact homogeny at work.

If you don't want positionals, simply don't play melee. It's just that simple. If they're so negligible and so irrelevant, don't use them and stop making threads.

And if Viper doesn't have them, then great, play that. Your dps is probably going to be lower so don't bother us about parsing. Although everyone ITT has claimed this isn't motivated by effortless dps, so I'm sure you would be more than ok with Viper having inherently lower DPS.

[Reinha]

You keep posting this fallacy of equivocation when I've already explained there is a difference between consistency and homogeny. Maintaining a set of jobs with the same traits is not homogeny. No one is homogenizing melee jobs.

However what you are doing, adding another notch into all jobs being the same, is in fact homogeny at work.

If you don't want positionals, simply don't play melee. It's just that simple. If they're so negligible and so irrelevant, don't use them and stop making threads.

And if Viper doesn't have them, then great, play that. Your dps is probably going to be lower so don't bother us about parsing. Although everyone ITT has claimed this isn't motivated by effortless dps, so I'm sure you would be more than ok with Viper having inherently lower DPS.

I will keep posting what I please and it does not matter to me one bit if anyone who thinks themself a Melee Spokesperson loses sleep over the fact that people who don't like positionals would like to play melee without them and keep giving feedback. If such a melee job is released, you can take your own advice and just not play it. Speaking of fallacies, hopefully my commentary on Lyth's post has debunked the fallacy that people hate the melee role if they dislike positionals, which keeps getting repeated in this thread.

If viper doesn't have positionals, I will play that, that's the whole point. And "don't bother us about parsing" lol, you realise you are talking to a RPR main? Reaper dps is already the lowest of melee (and barely above bard according to some sources) despite having positionals, so it's kind of weird to try and justify the existence of positionals with the promise of a higher dps potential when my job is barely rewarded for having to be in melee range let alone having positionals.

[Turtledeluxe]

I will keep posting what I please and it does not matter to me one bit if anyone who thinks themself a Melee Spokesperson loses sleep over the fact that people who don't like positionals would like to play melee without them and keep giving feedback. If such a melee job is released, you can take your own advice and just not play it. Speaking of fallacies, hopefully my commentary on Lyth's post has debunked the fallacy that people hate the melee role if they dislike positionals, which keeps getting repeated in this thread.

If viper doesn't have positionals, I will play that, that's the whole point. And "don't bother us about parsing" lol, you realise you are talking to a RPR main? Reaper dps is already the lowest of melee (and barely above bard according to some sources) despite having positionals, so it's kind of weird to try and justify the existence of positionals with the promise of a higher dps potential when my job is barely rewarded for having to be in melee range let alone having positionals.

It has nothing to do with being a "Melee Spokesperson"-- I am commenting on job homogeny in general and explaining the actual definition/application of homogeny. Removing positionals to produce a new set of melee that don't have positionals is exactly that. Maintaining positionals that exist across all melee is not homogeny. You can keep posting, you're still going to be using the term incorrectly.

And I also do not need to be a melee spokesperson to say that, if Viper has no positionals, you'll likely be looking at aDPS closer to MCH than RPR, i.e. a bigger disparity than what currently exists (not much of one) between the current melee classes.

Regarding BRD, the current state of its rDPS vs RPR makes complete sense and doesn't pose any contradiction. The aDPS of BRD is significantly lower.

I would also say that if it's true Xenosys mentioned this and is the source of this discontent, then he is unknowingly a job homogenist.