you know what grinds my gears?

[Anapingofness]

oh i'm not saying you're wrong. all i was doing was pointing out is that different people have different ideas of fun.

what we consider the game being work may be fun to them. for example i don't consider parsing different gear sets and weapons to be fun trying to find out which combinations work the best, but i have a few good friends in game that will spend weeks on it and quite enjoy it. it would be a full time job to me, but it is enjoyable to them. which is wrong? neither

my only point is if you consider something work and a group of people consider it fun and expect people to play that way then that's just not the group you should be playing with. it will only cause drama in the long run because you will never convince them you are right and they will never convince you that you are wrong. you just look at something different than they do. there's absolutely nothing wrong with either point of view.

more than anything there are many different types of people in game and if people look hard enough they will be able to find people with similar views to them and be able to get things done. there's no need to join this super special end game shell if their play style does not match what you are looking for in the game.

It feels as if we're saying something very similar.

In the end that's really what the OP needs to take away from this.

There are people for her, she just needs to find them. Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it takes a while.

It sounds like a cop out, but this is a social game above all else. Learning to play with other people is tough. That's why when players find those people that jive well with them they tend to hang onto them.

[darkstarpoet1]

It feels as if we're saying something very similar.

In the end that's really what the OP needs to take away from this.

There are people for her, she just needs to find them. Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it takes a while.

It sounds like a cop out, but this is a social game above all else. Learning to play with other people is tough. That's why when players find those people that jive well with them they tend to hang onto them.

agreed. that was the point i was trying to get off originally. she states she hates shells because of the way they are. it's not the shells that are the problem. it's the differences in the views the members of those particular shells have that conflict with the views of the op.

(directed towards the op)
if someone wants to do a 100 page application and must have every class to 50 with all triple melds to even be considered to join that is up to that person. i wouldn't join it because i don't agree with it, but there are other shells in the game that have what i am looking for and the types of people i want to enjoy gaming with. everyone just has to keep looking until they find that shell that fits them. once you find them the game becomes alot more enjoyable.

if you can't find a shell that is already made like the one you are wanting in your head you can always get a group of friends together and start one of your own and can run it however you feel is best to make the game the most enjoyable for you. it doesn't matter if your idea of a fun game is all roll playing with kitty people only that only have 1 craft to cap that runs around town drinking milk all day and playing with yarn. if that's what you find as fun then just take the time and find people that enjoy that and enjoy the game doing what you find fun.

[AdvancedWind]

First off OP, your case was just a somewhat isolated situation that just cannot be generalized as if it happens on every linkshell. It doesn't. In fact, most linkshells and specially endgame linkshells are pretty fair when it comes down to loot distribution. Since we are seeing only your side of the story, I won't make any further comment on it.

That said, everything else you posted is, quite frankly, bullshit. There are different types of linkshells and, if you don't like something about a specific linkshell, there's only one tip I can give you: Don't join it. It's - that - simple.

First off, you complain that linkshells are "exclusive cliques". Well, guess what? You're complaining about the entire fucking point of a linkshell. A linkshell is a tool used to put players into groups so they can easily communicate with each other, and thus play with each other. The point of having a linkshell is to be part of one those groups, if you don't want "exclusive" (notice the quotes) groups to talk and play with, then newsflash! You don't want a linkshell. Don't worry if that's your case, there are quite a few people out there that also don't.

Now, comes the applications. Again, it's a simple matter:

Don't want to fill applications? Don't join LSs with applications.

All LSs require applications? Make your own, application-free LS. As far as I know, it's either free or very damn cheap to make a linkshell, just requires you to talk to a single NPC on the adventurers guild.

Also, outside of endgame / hardcore linkshells, the app is a mere formality and is basically used just to know who wants to join the ls.

It helps leading people to the ls website (so they can know what the hell happens on the ls), it prevents the officers / leader from getting random "can I join your LS?" messages when they're busy, it prevents LSs from dealing with douchebags, and it also provides basic info that is definitely useful for both parties (do you speak the same language as us? Do you play on the same time as us?). I have yet to see a social linkshell with an app that couldn't be decently filled in like, five minutes. Perhaps ten.

If you can somehow compare that to job interviews or whatever, I'd like to know what stupidly simple job interviews you've been having.

Of course, then we have the whole "issue" about endgame linkshells. The apps are more involved, and will often request info on jobs, experience on games, plans about leveling classes, etc. I will admit, these ones might be a bit more comparable to job interviews, but again: You don't like it, don't join one.

And, quite honestly, they have a reason to do that. They want good players that fit whatever criteria they set up for joining. They want to play the game in a more competitive / result oriented way, they want to get content done, they want to gear up their members, they want to have fun their way. You're the one asking to get in their group. So, they set the rules.

There are many valid reasons for wanting players at X level on Y classes, for example. This post is already getting pretty long, so I won't really mention them; anyways, other people already did that on this sthread.

You might disagree about how they play the game, but generalizing endgame shells and players as some sort of elitist group out there to mess with the n3wbz, say you are entitled to join whatever shell without restriction and that everyone out there should join hands and babysit players for every content is complete bullshit.

"Why don't they train the players'? Because they just don't want to do it, plain and simple. They also play the game for fun, even if it doesn't really seem that way for you. And, most likely, having to teach and bring a complete beginner to endgame is something that's not in their definition of fun.

By the way, many of the strategies and tips you can find about any MMO on the internet has been writen by this very kind of players to help less experienced players.

The bottom line is: There are a lot of douchebags out there. People that will join your linkshell and demand to join parties, demand to get items, ninja loot, argue with other players, scam, steal, cheat, make fun of other members, make racist jokes, and even call your mom bad names. Some of these guys play just one hour a day. Some others might never log out.

In both cases, simple applications can filter most of that crap out.

(this post is likely full of english errors. It's 2:41 AM and I'm not a native speaker; kindly deal with em ^^)

[Biggs]

Op sorry your experiencing these types of players in-game. If your looking for the people that propagate this sort of behavior look no further than 90% of the assclowns that responded to this thread. Just based of most of the responses here to your OP, you are literally preaching to the choir.

[Risae]

OP, i hope you see now what FFXIV has for a "beautiful" community.

[Payadopa]

This is a game not a job. While I understand that LSs want to find like-minded members it is taken to an absurd level with 'filling out an application (lol)'.
Don't most people here have a job that fills their longing for filling in applications? lol
To each their own I guess.

On the other hand, it's a good way for me to assess an LS... (and run away as fast as possible lol)

What happened to the 'I've partied with you for a while and you seem to be a nice/ professional/ whatever person *hands over shiny pearl*' - situations?

[Jynx]

more than anything there are many different types of people in game and if people look hard enough they will be able to find people with similar views to them and be able to get things done. there's no need to join this super special end game shell if their play style does not match what you are looking for in the game.

Bravo sir.

Everyone has their own definition of "Fun". We all need to respect eachother when we bring ideas that we all find fun to the table, I may not always agree but I always respect the right to an opinion.

I've done alot of things people might consider "Work" in the MMO's I've played. Hell in Ultima Online I focused purely on collecting one of a kind items that existed in the game due to either glitches or "World events" that happened once in a lifetime.

I made a market of buying and selling these rare items for ungodly ammounts of game money just so I could look different than the other guy standing at the bank. So my player home could look awesome I mean who else has a lava pool in their basement?

Answer: Nobody did because I owned all the lava tiles on the server!

Some people thought I was crazy, others thought I was awesome my home became a artifact of it's own. I knew another group of players who created a ingame Casino they all Roleplayed staff...christ they had shifts set out and everything! Met many of them outside of their characters and it was just a big thrill for them to be able to create something the entire server community enjoyed.

Good....good and crazy times.

[YuriSan]

Most "Hardcore" endgame shells either started from a small group of people that met in a social shell when they where noobs
and so chose to go on together cause they went along well with eachother or a person and a friend thought to start an endgame shell with a website that will allow them to filter crappy players "not like themselves" through the application...

The second type of endgame shells are usually not as good as the first type, the first type usually dosent use applications and websites at all... they just keep to themselves and have fun since they good on their relationships, skillz andgametime/dedication already... so u need to either find a good social ls to start being a part of a group u will enjoy being a part of or swallow it and go through the applications.............

(i like the first type of endgame ls by far)

[Quatre]

When your linkshell is super tight knit like a family it's very important to be super selective. My linkshell has ~8 members in it but we all play all, and support one another. We're not opposed to new people but we've all been playing for years together, and when it comes down to it we know we have each others back.

None of us are opposed to teaching new people, but when you're that established you want someone who's put in as much time and effort as you have. In my experience, our applications have been more of a formality to introduce yourself to everybody in the linkshell, Obviously, if you play with everyone in the linkshell often enough applications wouldn't even be needed

[SuzakuCMX]

I found a nice endgame linkshell that tells me how to do my job for every endgame content I try. They're very patient and understanding and they help me with all my stuff.

<3 Maybe you guys have suck luck.