Why are NPC parties so bad?

[Taliriah]

Yep the best combo when available is Tancred + Urianger + Estinien. You can pull wall to wall without issue.

Also lol @ people who think that playing with trusts is easier than playing with a party and will give you bad habits when dying to mechanics is an instant fail instead of getting resed and shrugging it off if you play with players.

[Acelyn]

people who run with trust imho are making the game harder for themselves, they take frikkin forever to kill mobs and bosses, so long to the point that it begins to feel like you the player actually are doing something wrong.

dungeon runs are the easiest way to learn your rotation and also see how others may use your job in neat ways.

[Taliriah]

people who run with trust imho are making the game harder for themselves, they take frikkin forever to kill mobs and bosses, so long to the point that it begins to feel like you the player actually are doing something wrong.

Still faster than waiting for a PF queue

[Voltyblast]

Still faster than waiting for a PF queue

I don't know about that, I'd say they're...about the same.

For reference, I did one dungeon - I forgot which one, I think Gulg - both as a tank and dps while using Trusts, and then I queued for a normal team as a DPS for the same place.

From what I remember, when queueing with Trusts, I took more or less 30 minutes to complete - no mass pulling or anything - however, I noticed that the damage was below subpar, and the team could barely keep up even the most basic mobs. A single group could easily take 2-3 minutes for how slow they were, so I took more or less 30 minutes to complete.

Now, as a DPS (not counting tank or healer for obvious reasons), I had a queue and said queue took me about...let's say 10 minutes. However, right away we could clear most groups in less than 5 minutes, maybe 10, and we cleared the entire dungeon in about 20 minutes, maybe slightly less.

Now this is the issue: queues with players are objectively faster if you're a tank or healer, you have no reason to use trusts while using those roles, it's simply slower, even if you don't mass pull.
But as a DPS, if you don't get a team within 10 minutes, it COULD be better to go with trusts, but considering everything, I'd still prefer to go with a team because, even if the queue takes, in the worst case scenario, 20 minutes, you can still clear the dungeon in LESS than 20 minutes. And EVEN if you clear a dungeon in 40 minutes because of the queue, it's only 10 minutes of difference.

The bottom line, a normal queue is only slow if you're a DPS, in which case trusts can be handy if you can't find a team within 10 minutes. Otherwise, trusts is a last resort.

I have to test this on a post-patch dungeon, like Cosmos or similar, but I don't think the difference is THAT drastically high.

Edit: I just did a test right now, however, I couldn't go to anything beyond Holmister Switch, since I forgot that I have to level my trusts, and I'm not crazy enough to bother with it, so that's what I had to settle with right now.

At any rate, I went with trusts the first time, as a DPS, I finished it with the timer signing 61:23, so about 28:37 minutes to complete. Of course, no queue time.

After that, I just went to the same place with a normal team, as a DPS again: the queue took me quite a while, about 10 minutes, but considering the time It's not that bad (it was about 6 pm as of this message, since I'm European, but I assume it's noon for most people: it would be probably faster if it was later)

Regardless, the team run finished with the timer signing 71:52, which is about 18:08 minutes to complete, plus the 10 or so minutes of the queue, for a total of 28:08 minutes. I want to add that the team I was in almost wiped once, with the tank dying once, and one DPS dying twice, once during a boss, so it was far from an optimal run.

I didn't test with test trusts with tanks but I have a feeling the difference would be very small, maybe a couple of minutes at best. However I can't test for anything past 80, and that's where I have to stop im afraid. I'm not going to level up my trusts for this.

[CamuiKushi]

Duty support is hard mode for sure. Trusts are marginally better, but they both pale in comparison to the glory of Squadrons.Squads melt trash faster than any player party and it's absolutely glorious. One could say having to micromanage them makes them hard to use, but I love that too. Doesn't matter your role, squadrons are the best way to level any job to 60 in the game. It's wild to me they got it so right the first time and things got progressively worse from there.

[Souljacker]

people who run with trust imho are making the game harder for themselves, they take frikkin forever to kill mobs and bosses, so long to the point that it begins to feel like you the player actually are doing something wrong.

dungeon runs are the easiest way to learn your rotation and also see how others may use your job in neat ways.

Dungeon runs with players who are empathetic, sure. And these days with how braindead lower level dungeons are you barely even have to know the boss's moves, so you make some points.

But if you are a DPS, your likelihood of being paired with the same job is slim to none. I can't even remember the last time I was paired with even another melee if I went mnk in a 4 man. If you are a tank or a healer, you don't get to 'see how others may use your job' at all.

The truth is MOST folks in this game want a speed run, I get it, that's fine, I have just as much ptsd from Foreverreap and Brayflox Nonstop as the next girl, get it out of my face. But, for new players, the low pressure environment is more helpful. They can take their time, tab out to double check something online, adjust their hotbars, etc. And if the trusts scaled their performance as the player's performance got better, that's a positive reinforcement that will only help that person when they maybe want to start raiding.

Honestly, why are y'all so worried about 4 man leveling content anyway, as if trusts are like, taking away from endgame or something? This is the ULTIMATE training grounds, or it COULD be, that could prepare players to be better in harder content.

[ReynTime]

Doing dungeons with my squadron is COMPLETELY different. Everything runs smoothly, like it's a group of real players, good players, and everyone is doing their job perfectly. The only issue is that they doesn't seem to take much damage if they don't move away from red areas, which is ridiculous.

This is to compensate how difficult it is to have them move away from AoE/mechanics. Completing Brayflox's Longstop Hard with a squadron used to be a nightmare.

[Thangil]

I seen op mention grand cosmos and whine that thancred can't keep the boss attention.

Got me wondering just how inattentive the op is when it comes to mechanics.

That particular boss has a few attacks that aren't just for the tank. Mortal flame has each player goto a object to transfer the blue flame onto or they die. Otherworldly heat has ppl spread to drop their crosses.

Then there's where he gives each player a sword number to give a indication of who he dashing towards and ya need to run far from him and angle in a way so no furniture is on fire that can be used for the blue flame mechanic.

So saying that. I wonder if it's really the trust system or the op themselves that are the issue.

The trust system actually has you figure out a different way to run the dungeon. It's neat but very doable.

So I'm whining when I'm telling what happened, and I'm a bad player. You know absolutely nothing about me.

I'm fully aware of the mechanics, I always google it before doing a dungeon/trial/raid the first time. I may not be a superb player, but I'm certainly NOT among the worst.

You are a very rude person and I hope I never meet you ingame.

[Thangil]

But if you are a DPS, your likelihood of being paired with the same job is slim to none.

Rubbish. I often get paired with other SMNers.

[Thangil]

These were all said in order with the conversation that took place.

You asked why is it different when you play with your... squadron. But you are saying that clearly does not mean your... squadron.

What?

Re-read the entire first couple of pages of this thread to get it. Again, it's entirely on you if you don't understand how I point out the differences between NPCs and squadrons. Everyone else seems to understand, regardless if they agree or not.

Quoting out of context doesn't validate your "point".