Is anyone else hoping SMN keeps Resurrection?

[AmiableApkallu]

SMN should keep res, since it fits the summoning theme^^

Raise as a standalone spell has nothing to do with being a summoner.

Raise as something attached to summoning Phoenix, sure.

[DustyBlue]

The classic summoner identity in the FF series is long suspenseful cast times, but for the best flashiest burst damage in the game. So I think this an opportunity to finally shed the rez like they always wanted, and for summoner to fully lean into a black mage equivalent DPS identity. Black mage being more consistent/constant sustained damage, and summoner for the BIG big burst. In pursuit of that I think they should even get rid of Searing Light, personally. Never really made much sense, them having a generic party damage buff. But I have always hated summoner having a rez in particular since it thematically makes little sense, just like the poison DoTs (compounded with Physick never being viable) . It could still have DoTs, just not poison-related ones. A rez, however, seems to me as thematically AND mechanically not something a summoner really ever had a logical basis for having, and them having it actively hinders them allowing it to reach its full DPS potential in the job balance dynamics. Unless it something tied to the conditional narrow window of being in Phoenix phase, of course, or something like a preventative Auto-Life. Therefore, I think Resurrection should be not an arcanist action, but specifically a scholar action, and the Phoenix rez (if they get one) should be learned at level 80 when you learn how to summon Phoenix (also putting red mage as the earlier learner now, and the primary star of the DPS rezzer show).

As for a solution to the red mage rez tax, how about it gets a stance sort of like in PVP but more like astrology's old sects that you can only change before combat starts, which gets rid of your ability to rez in favor of balancing you closer to black mage. Replacing the Verraise action with something DPS-related. Black-attuned versus white-attuned. In PVP, it gives you the choice between Magick Barrier or Frazzle. Just don't have that circle effect on the player constantly visible, it's utterly obnoxious. Personally, I like the idea of red mage being the only DPS rezzer since they are the only ones who deal with white magic. But giving them the option to not be confined to low DPS because they are the rez mage, that denies them their rightful claim to black magic identity as well, so this stance gives players and raid groups the option of if they are relying on them for their rez, or if the red mage is permitted to have their DPS fun as an equal to the other casters.

As a black mage main, I am fundamentally against black mage EVER getting a rez of any sort, since it is not just thematically irrelevant, but thematically and mechanically OPPOSITE to everything black mages stand for. It would clash with their entire design and gimmick, even if they got some sort of evil necromancer rez. I would like them to have Mana Shift back though...

[rawker]

The classic summoner identity in the FF series is long suspenseful cast times....

This could perfectly fit in if there is something the summoner could do while channeling the summoning. I dunno.. something like a pet we can command and attack for us while we are busy chanting.. oh wait.

[Supersnow845]

Why do we even pretend like SMN ever has a cohesive identity in FF

Any time someone has an idea for SMN they basically just draw from their favourite iteration of it across the series then argue that iteration is the “default” iteration

[rawker]

The only thing cohesive about SMN is that it is able to summon Espers/Eidolons/Guardian Forces/Aeons. How each iteration was implemented varied.

The turn-based nature of the old FF games didn't allow anything other than a glorified black mage spell that costs absurd amounts of MP and a permanent target all without falloff damage. Things changed when FFX came along where Yuna summoned Aeons and some of them, we have control over their ability usage before them leaving doing their signature move. Hence it was the first FF mainline game that introduced summoner somewhat a pet job. This was further enhanced with FFXI. Aside from being able to summon the known familiars, FFXI SMN had the ability to summon elemental spirits, which in itself, you have no control on what they cast. Then came Carbuncle... and then everything else was history.

Moving forward to FFXIV, the game introduced ACN as the pet class with which SMN and SCH branched from. The base is already there. Aside from Yoshi-P not a fan of pet jobs, i think i've read it somewhere i can't remember the exact article or i am only making bogus claims, a few tweaks to address the ghosting could have taken place.. but then, Endwalker Summoner happened... the utmost worst design path they chose.

[Doozer]

Personally, I like the idea of red mage being the only DPS rezzer since they are the only ones who deal with white magic. But giving them the option to not be confined to low DPS because they are the rez mage, that denies them their rightful claim to black magic identity as well, so this stance gives players and raid groups the option of if they are rely on them for their rez, or if the red mage is permitted to have their DPS fun as an equal to the other casters.

From what I understand based on previous red mage iterations that I know of, it's been the quintessential "jack of all trades, master of none". It gets both white and black magic but never excels in either. It's had access to raise in the past so I don't mind if having a raise, but let's not pretend it can hold a candle to either white mage or black mage. I think it's fine where it is.

[Carin-Eri]

For once I agree with you. SMNs and RDMs thinking it's solely their job to raise people to "help" the healers when the healers didn't need help nor was it ever communicated that the casters should be raising are the most annoying kind of player right now.

Thankfully don't encounter that too often myself.

I mean, I only 'help' the Healers that way if they're playing Floor-Mage and they themselves need the Raise. Or, occasionally, when a Tank is down and the Healers don't seem to have noticed or are preoccupied.

[Doozer]

Thankfully don't encounter that too often myself.

I mean, I only 'help' the Healers that way if they're playing Floor-Mage and they themselves need the Raise. Or, occasionally, when a Tank is down and the Healers don't seem to have noticed or are preoccupied.

Oh absolutely, if the healers are dead or a huge chunk of people go down leading the healers (if they're even alive) to hardcast raise, then that's when a RDM can shine. Other times it's just main character syndrome rearing its ugly head.

[RyuuZero]

Raise as a standalone spell has nothing to do with being a summoner.

Raise as something attached to summoning Phoenix, sure.

well.. you could say the summon people back to the living^^

[AmiableApkallu]

well.. you could say the summon people back to the living^^

They don't, though. Canonically, HP = 0 means you're knocked out and very unconscious, not that you're actually dead.

And raising the actual dead is simply necromancy.