I got a question! (PLD)

[Vatom]

I don’t believe so, my goal simply is to keep focus on what is the topic. As per se the topic you brought up didn’t have anything to do with clemency. But! Since you brought it up. What does warrior have that PLD doesn’t? (I’m only going to hear the one response and reply no offense I just want to go back to the subject at hand)

Clemency is a conflict with dps that’s why Holy Spirit and circle heal per hit now right? So now you solve that need why do you need clemency? There is a logical reason to remove it and a logical one to keep it but if you keep it other tanks should have something of it’s equivalent right?

[Enkidoh]

Clemency's main purpose is it is not meant specifically for duty content per-se, but solo-content, allowing PLD to survive in situations they probably wouldn't otherwise.

And the amount of times I've been in a party and had to heal because the healer is distracted meeting DPS checks or is.. not very skilled, and my health has dropped to dangerous levels which even mitigation wouldn't help me survive, so you better believe I've going to cast Clemency to heal myself - I wouldn't use it on myself if my health is above half my total HP though. And it is useful when cast on someone else as it will also heal you by half that amount if you do so, so there is benefit for PLD to make use of it in emergency situations.

Formerly it was also useful when Divine Veil required a healing spell to execute, in that it allowed me to buff my party up without waiting for damage or the healer to heal me, but that's no longer neccessary.

Also, the other tank Jobs all have their own regenerative-style healing abilities which PLD does not have, so Clemency instead is a burst heal to compensate.

[rawker]

I don’t believe so, my goal simply is to keep focus on what is the topic. As per se the topic you brought up didn’t have anything to do with clemency. But! Since you brought it up. What does warrior have that PLD doesn’t? (I’m only going to hear the one response and reply no offense I just want to go back to the subject at hand)

Clemency is a conflict with dps that’s why Holy Spirit and circle heal per hit now right? So now you solve that need why do you need clemency? There is a logical reason to remove it and a logical one to keep it but if you keep it other tanks should have something of it’s equivalent right?

The element of choice and opportunity cost is what gives more depth to a job. Clemency fills that just fine. Everything isn't about your personal DPS. Should the healer struggle and you are sure that the next raidwide will kill a DPS, you Clemency them. A dead DPS deals less dps because of the weakness debuff.

[Vatom]

Solo content I guess you mean deep dungeons. I can see a reason but all the other tanks see to get by find there so I don’t see a problem that can be solve with adjustments.

Yes you are giving a great reason to keep it. I agree but I can also spin that and say drk can’t keep someone alive only prolonged death. Gnb only when it has corundum (no aurora doesn’t it’s just prolonged death) WAR can when there is NF but you have to still hit the enemy (note these are not equivalent abilities they are TBN competitors)

Again I ask what is the equivalent ability to ability to Clemency?

[EusisLandale]

I don’t believe so, my goal simply is to keep focus on what is the topic. As per se the topic you brought up didn’t have anything to do with clemency. But! Since you brought it up. What does warrior have that PLD doesn’t? (I’m only going to hear the one response and reply no offense I just want to go back to the subject at hand)

Bloodwhetting. AKA 4 Benedictions, a shield, and flat mitigation every 25 seconds. So, you know, just god mode on ~95% of the game's content that it can be used.
Or maybe Shake it Off? The ability to shield and heal the entire party repeatedly? What other tank does that?
How about Equilibrium? 2200 potency worth of healing at absolutely no cost to anything.
Inner Release guarantees Direct Crits while serving as an extra Arms' Length allowing them to ignore more knockback mechanics than anyone else on top of the rare cases of any of the other assortment of things it prevents from being done to you.

Clemency is a conflict with dps that’s why Holy Spirit and circle heal per hit now right? So now you solve that need why do you need clemency? There is a logical reason to remove it and a logical one to keep it but if you keep it other tanks should have something of it’s equivalent right?

Again, a single skill is a horrible way to judge things and a horrible way to balance things. Warrior aside, tank healing capabilities are roughly in line with one another. Not a perfect 1:1, but fair enough even if the ways they go about it are different. If everyone has to have the exact same button, what's the point of having any more than one of each type of job anyway?

[Vatom]

Thank you I will respond to the BW and then move on. (Please understand I not being combative when I say this)

BW was the answer to TBN being busted so everyone got a TBN
Are they balanced right now (debatable) but they are not clemency or a replacement for it HS is and intervention. Also BW doesn’t heal to to full all the time but it does comeback fast I’ll give you that. But If you want to start pointing out broken things we can look HG but that will derail the conversation.

It’s not be maybe I’m not explaining well enough I do apologize.
WAR has more healing due to having less mit not a good enough reasoning. (Their mit is a different form I’m aware instead of brick their a meat shield)

Yes if I follow SE logic then yes everyone should have the same thing just flavor different. For example (all the TBN competitors)
If they give everyone one of those then why not? If your going to complain about job identity, should have spoke up sooner they when they gave PLD healing on HS and HC. Or when everyone got a TBN. Or when tank stance was taken. That ship is arriving in Dawntrail. If to yell loud enough maybe the next expansion.

Ok here is a better question from the whole kit from all the tanks. Since you can spot it , what is clemency or better yet what is that flavor ability that doesn’t intentionally contribute to the kit.

[EusisLandale]

what is that flavor ability that doesn’t intentionally contribute to the kit.

Considering these things are part of the kits and didn't just happen accidentally, I'm assuming more so you just mean things that stick out like a sore thumb.
Warrior: Shake it Off. That is a healer ability through and through, just flavored as making everyone too angry to die. It even eats any of your other mitigations.
Dark Knight: Dark Mind. Flavor is just protecting from the main people Dark Knights in the setting were hunting, corrupt church dudes aka mages, and yet it's so utterly useless if you're not taking magic damage specifically.
Gunbreaker: Aurora. You've got healing magic bullets because they needed some excuse for self healing here to keep up with anyone with better reasons for it.

[Zairava]

Thank you I will respond to the BW and then move on. (Please understand I not being combative when I say this)

BW was the answer to TBN being busted so everyone got a TBN
Are they balanced right now (debatable) but they are not clemency or a replacement for it HS is and intervention. Also BW doesn’t heal to to full all the time but it does comeback fast I’ll give you that. But If you want to start pointing out broken things we can look HG but that will derail the conversation...

Okay, to touch on everything here

TBN isn't really "busted", and never has been. It's just in Shadowbringers the power creep of tbn was starting to show since tbn is more powerful the higher your hp pool is. TBN excels at throwing damage into the trash bin because it's a 25% HP shield, this does mean it's more powerful with other mitigation such as Rampart or Shadow Wall because they reduce the damage intake.

As for the balancing of them, all of the short CD's are balanced EXCEPT for Bloodwhetting. Even in single target it's more powerful than tbn is. I can provide basic math for explanation, but I won't provide that much deep detail unless you actually want it.

PLD's self-sustain is only overdone because it's on your confiteor combo, I think if it were just HS it would be fine. GNB is probably the most balanced aside of DRK.


And Hallowed ground is actually the worst invuln since Living Dead got buffed, due to its CD being so long.

If they give everyone one of those then why not? If your going to complain about job identity, should have spoke up sooner they when they gave PLD healing on HS and HC. Or when everyone got a TBN. Or when tank stance was taken. That ship is arriving in Dawntrail. If to yell loud enough maybe the next expansion.

I've been screaming into the void for DRK's combat identity since Shadowbringers, many of us have on and off of the forums (I didn't start on here until around Endwalker, though). As well as letting us position bosses.

Ok here is a better question from the whole kit from all the tanks. Since you can spot it , what is clemency or better yet what is that flavor ability that doesn’t intentionally contribute to the kit.

• Warrior: Shake it off, but that honestly needs to be nerfed because it's pretty ludicrous how potent it is when we have a role dedicated to healing.
• Dark Knight: If it weren't for the addition of Oblation, I would have said the fact that flat mits actually make TBN stronger, but with Oblation it seems they've been aware for a while. If they still aren't somehow, then interaction rather than any single button is my pick.
• Gunbreaker: ...idk, camouflage? Parry on a defensive is pretty weird to be in modern ffxiv, but it thematically makes sense when you consider their weapons are lightweight and allow for faster reactions.

[Lyth]

TBN was added in Stormblood as an answer to Sheltron working on all damage types. In exchange, Intervention was added so that you could apply a similar effect to your party members. Raw Intuition was repurposed in Shadowbringers to give WAR an equivalent, and GNB gained Heart of Stone on release.

Sheltron, Raw Intuition, and HoS were all upgraded this expansion to add additional defensive effects and self-sustain. TBN didn't because it relies on the shield breaking to remain damage neutral, so Oblation was added as a separate action rather than going the same route as the others. If the MP cost didn't exist, it would have likely ended up designed similar to Arcane Crest, where an upgraded TBN/Oblation breaks to give you a heal/regen. I suspect that's what they did originally aiming for before realizing that it wasn't going to work in practice. Oblation has a very impressive animation for a thoroughly underwhelming effect.

I think adding built in heals to Holy Spirit/Circle was a mistake. I would have much rather that they had given PLD some sort of gameplay condition to gain a swiftcast proc for Clemency to make it situationally damage neutral, while leaving in the option to hardcast it in emergencies.

I also wish that a Shield Swipe approach could have been incorporated into Bash to preserve that 'counter' style gameplay. Bash definitely has niche uses in certain content types, but it's a fairly boring action.

[fulminating]

Calling any of hs/hoc/bw balanced when compared to how they were in shadowbringers rings a bit hollow. bw is massively overtuned, but PLD/GNB/WAR are all sitting at over 3x the hp they'd have had mitigating an exactly lethal hit last expansion. (even allowing survival on 1hp with nascent)