Feelings on FF14's Trinity System?

[ASkellington]

I wasn't specifically trying to target the biggest offenders of each tank in this particular example. I wanted to use Aurora as an example because I think it would be so much more interesting if it actually created an Aurora on the battlefield that provided some time of effect during its duration. An effect that generates a limited barrier based on the healing provided by the healers just sounded like an interesting direction for that effect.

Like I pointed out in the footnote, those particular suggestions are not mutually exclusive to any and all other specific changes that could potentially occur. So that could also be in conjunction with a Heart of Corundum rework.

I'll disagree to the change to Aurora to be interesting. I'd personally find it to be more cumbersome than anything. And even if I didn't, it doesn't make sense for a HoT to now become an AoE build up barrier. That seems better suited to Heart of Light.

[ty_taurus]

I'll disagree to the change to Aurora to be interesting. I'd personally find it to be more cumbersome than anything. And even if I didn't, it doesn't make sense for a HoT to now become an AoE build up barrier. That seems better suited to Heart of Light.

Are you saying that Aurora would not be more interesting if the visual effect were an actual aurora on the battlefield vs a sparkly Cure-looking effect? Or are you commenting on the idea of an effect that stores a percentage of healing received and turning that into a barrier is not more interesting? Because if it's the later, do note that these are simply examples that I was sharing to communicate an idea and do not need to be interpreted as definitively unchanging suggestions that must exist as they are written or the entire concept completely falls apart.

Also, reworked actions aren't things that need to be physically changed. It's not like you're manually changing what a coffee machine is to what a washing machine is where there is virtually nothing the two machines have in common and thus defeats the purpose of trying to repurposing an existing item in the first place. So while it might, in a real-world setting, be a lot easier to repurpose something to have a function that compliments the original design in some capacity... For example, cutting up an old shower curtain into a smock you can wear while painting your bathroom... It doesn't really matter what Aurora was vs what it can be changed into because what's being changed is data.

But regardless, I think you're missing the point of what I was saying anyway. I was talking about breaking down Tank sustain into two categories, so I don't really understand why we're scrutinizing a particular example, which is exactly that--an example, rather than talking about the concept.

[ASkellington]

Are you saying that Aurora would not be more interesting if the visual effect were an actual aurora on the battlefield vs a sparkly Cure-looking effect? Or are you commenting on the idea of an effect that stores a percentage of healing received and turning that into a barrier is not more interesting? Because if it's the later, do note that these are simply examples that I was sharing to communicate an idea and do not need to be interpreted as definitively unchanging suggestions that must exist as they are written or the entire concept completely falls apart.

The latter. VFX I don't generally care about over functionality. And no, I don't find the idea of turning a single target HoT into a party wide barrier based on heal percentage interesting. Of all the things I'd like to see a party contribute to or for cross-role interactivity engage with, that isn't one of them.

[ty_taurus]

The latter. VFX I don't generally care about over functionality. And no, I don't find the idea of turning a single target HoT into a party wide barrier based on heal percentage interesting. Of all the things I'd like to see a party contribute to or for cross-role interactivity engage with, that isn't one of them.

Well, like I said before, that was not the focus of the post you were responding to. It was an example to communicate a point, but you're fixated on me calling that one example "Aurora" instead of "Heart of Light" or "Heart of Corundum" and ended the train of thought at that station.

[ASkellington]

Well, like I said before, that was not the focus of the post you were responding to. It was an example to communicate a point, but you're fixated on me calling that one example "Aurora" instead of "Heart of Light" or "Heart of Corundum" and ended the train of thought at that station.

Your point was addressed in my initial post.

Specifically here:

While I would be all for HoC to be tied to the Shell gauge... with the way SE wants the game I don't see it happening. And even then I see issues since Double Down costs 2. Rather, HoC should be more akin to TBN in that there is a set of damage that the GNB has to take first in order for the heal to be applied. This way they don't have a free recitation, they actually have to have the damage be applied first.

I'd LOVE to see more interaction with the gauge on all tanks, not just GNB, I don't see it happening with mitagation since, iirc from what I've read, we HAD that and it was REMOVED.

More to your point, I don't find, in general, it to be a good or even FUN mechanic to have a barrier interact with healing from the healers as a solution to dilute tank sustain. Its an idea. Its not one I welcome. Regardless of whether its on Aurora (which to me personally doesn't fit, hence why I mentioned it) or on HoL.

I didn't mention the other tanks because I don't play them enough to feel comfortable in addressing them and would rather mains of them tackle it cause they know the classes better but -

Clemency is probably the best out of those since it uses MP, and the rest are free, but I would argue that Aurora being weak as it is (and NO SE it doesn't need a third charge) and Abyssal Drain being on its 60 CD is fine, at your oppertunity cost as it were and don't need to be tied to anything.

Bloodwhetting has plenty that can be done with it. Increase the recast timer, out right nerf the amount in and of itself (how is w/e). Tie it to rage, change it from being a heal that imo doesn't belong on WAR and instead make it into another Thrill that either increases HP per hit for X seconds for the WAR or the Party (or a shield) up to a certain amount. I don't exactly CARE what happens to it persay so long as it gets addressed.

Divine Veil and Shake it Off (over time) are out of my depth outside of - does PLD/WAR need extra group healing in this economy? no - but in theory I don't have problems with either (other than SiO has no business being a HoT on WAR). Again, could be tied to gauge. I'd find that to be interesting. I don't see it happening.

[ty_taurus]

More to your point, I don't find, in general, it to be a good or even FUN mechanic to have a barrier interact with healing from the healers as a solution to dilute tank sustain. Its an idea. Its not one I welcome. Regardless of whether its on Aurora (which to me personally doesn't fit, hence why I mentioned it) or on HoL.

I didn't mention the other tanks because I don't play them enough to feel comfortable in addressing them and would rather mains of them tackle it cause they know the classes better but -

Clemency is probably the best out of those since it uses MP, and the rest are free, but I would argue that Aurora being weak as it is (and NO SE it doesn't need a third charge) and Abyssal Drain being on its 60 CD is fine, at your oppertunity cost as it were and don't need to be tied to anything.

Okay, fair. That particular example isn't mechanically to your liking. Was I was more going for were just examples of how sustain on tanks, instead of being directly restorative as they currently are, are instead designed to enhance the effects of the healers or add to their healing, that way they can still provide sustain without being self-sufficient enough to replace the healers in everyday content. Perhaps that specific effect isn't to your liking, but I would be more interested in talking about that concept as a whole, such as the other examples I gave regardless of which tank they're on.

- A Plenary Indulgence effect that adds additional healing potency to heals received, and redirects all aggro generated from healing to the user.
- A buff that simply increases how much HP the user recovers when healed.
- Converting ones own HP into a barrier value that way a healer can restore the missing HP with the barrier still intact.

These are all effects that the tanks can also still utilize on their own by relying on those other opportunity cost actions. Paladin could use Divine Veil and then use Clemency on themselves in solo content to increase the amount of healing they receive. Additionally, there are undoubtably other possible ways of approaching sustain in that way outside those three or the barrier effect you didn't like. So even if my specific examples suck, perhaps there are better ideas someone else could come up with that follows that type of logic that may be much stronger than the examples I gave.