Feelings on FF14's Trinity System?

[Supersnow845]

I enjoy the specific roles of tank, healer, and DPS, and I do not enjoy games that deviate from this (e.g., Guild Wars 2), whatever their other strengths may be.

I love healing and playing supporting roles.

Except in this game if you wanna heal you play tank which is somehow the worst of both worlds

[LaylaTsarra]

I enjoy the specific roles of tank, healer, and DPS, and I do not enjoy games that deviate from this (e.g., Guild Wars 2), whatever their other strengths may be.

I love healing and playing supporting roles.

I love healing too and enjoy it a lot. Doubt they're about to change the trinity system and the option to play different party styles does exist.

[Ardeth]

Gw2 makes the lack of trinity feel awful. Even they gave in and made a soft trinity. It just works, and it's moronic to deviate from it. It always plays like muddy garbage, and you alienate the players who like tank and healer. It's just dumb.

[Rithy255]

The trinity system is a out dated concept in a game that prioritises 90% fight design 10% Job Design, The identity behind a Healer and Tank has been lowered with each expansion to make them less alien to DPS players, but have stripped them of what little made them Unique in the first place.

Dps
Currently the "best" out of the three, which is not surprising Dps is always the default pick for most players in a trinity system game due to less team reasonability's and generally being seen more fun on average (even if I usually prefer tanks/healers), DPS players generally have it good outside burst windows, I'd say phys ranged is where the most was took as having a "support-dps" hybrid is hard to design around the current design of the game, Melee DPS have it the best, casters are generally in a decent spot. Not much to complain here, but I'd be cautious of future DPS designs after seeing the summoner rework.

Healer
Healer's are well known at this point to infact be press one damage button and your dot while throwing a odd ogcd heal here and there, usually healers have enough resources that actually making a choice between damage output or healing isn't a choice you can usually do both at the same time, All healer support kits are very similar theirs not a lot that stands out most either heal, shield or mitigate which would be fine, but the low importance of these actions and not needing to use them often, just mainly in instances that are scripted, while also having a one damage button rotation leads to a very bland design in general.

Tank
Tank's while usually being the "least popular" and most "scary" role to get into with final fantasy 14 that's actually not really the case, Tanks at least in my servers tend to be quite a bit more popular then healers, The reason why though is because Tanks are practically slower easier DPS in FF14, With some utility, Aggro management isn't existent in ff14, Which would lead to more creative choices being able to be took, but in reality tanks get nothing much other then again being slow dps win aggro by default. Theirs not a lot to say about ff14 tanking its very simple, boring and samey very similar to healer design.

Healers and Tanks are pretty much second thoughts to DPS, I think it's clear that more attention goes to DPS design because it's the most popular which means it becomes even more popular by default. Heck I even stopped "maining" Paladin after it's rework to play Black Mage, because the Design felt like it was just trying to copy other tanks which weren't for me...

I hope for both tanks & Healers they can either get more intresting DPS kits or even make their gameplay and what they "should" bring to the table more fun & Interesting as it stands the current game could actually be reworked so every job is a dps... Look at PVP it's pretty easy to replace healers and tanks with how not important they are to the design of the game and fights.

[Ardeth]

snip.

To be fair, the players did that. There's nothing wrong with identity in the trinity. There's something wrong when every design incorporates going as fast as possible as efficiently as possible. That's why tanks and healers are dps classes with extra steps. But the trinity is fine as it is. Like I said, every game that breaks from it eventually comes crawling back to it. Getting rid of it won't make them feel better. It always makes them feel worse. Being a "tank" in GW2 is the damn most unrewarding experience in life.

Personally, I think harder dungeons and more involved rotations removing the agro system of lack there of we have now is a move in a better direction. Make a mob of enemies threatening so the healer can barely dps instead of only dpsing. Giving players options to CC enemies and making the experience more of an experience and less of an endurance test to stay awake.

[Supersnow845]

To be fair, the players did that. There's nothing wrong with identity in the trinity. There's something wrong when every design incorporates going as fast as possible as efficiently as possible. That's why tanks and healers are dps classes with extra steps. But the trinity is fine as it is. Like I said, every game that breaks from it eventually comes crawling back to it. Getting rid of it won't make them feel better. It always makes them feel worse. Being a "tank" in GW2 is the damn most unrewarding experience in life.

Personally, I think harder dungeons and more involved rotations removing the agro system of lack there of we have now is a move in a better direction. Make a mob of enemies threatening so the healer can barely dps instead of only dpsing. Giving players options to CC enemies and making the experience more of an experience and less of an endurance test to stay awake.

“Removing the agro system”

My brother in Christ what do you actually want tanks to do at this point

The agro system is literally the last vestige of the blue role, remove that and there is nothing separating tanks from slightly garbage melee

[Oizen]

“Removing the agro system”

My brother in Christ what do you actually want tanks to do at this point

The agro system is literally the last vestige of the blue role, remove that and there is nothing separating tanks from slightly garbage melee

Well to be honest, Aggro and emnity has never been a good system in this game, and its basically never been the Tank's responsibility.
Even in the rose tinted glasses area of tanking, you'd maybe press the enmity combo once, turn off defense stance and only be in dps stance the rest of the fight unless some job specific mechanic made you get out of it.

Hell I'm pretty sure it ended up being Ninja's job to handle enmity.

[Supersnow845]

Well to be honest, Aggro and emnity has never been a good system in this game, and its basically never been the Tank's responsibility.
Even in the rose tinted glasses area of tanking, you'd maybe press the enmity combo once, turn off defense stance and only be in dps stance the rest of the fight unless some job specific mechanic made you get out of it.

Hell I'm pretty sure it ended up being Ninja's job to handle enmity.

So again literally what do you actually want the tanks to do (~~besides be the healer~~)

No enmity, basically immortal, a wealth of healing a defensives, a rotation that is far easier than the melee

What are even your responsibilities at that point, you are just playing an immortal melee DPS

[Rithy255]

Well to be honest, Aggro and emnity has never been a good system in this game, and its basically never been the Tank's responsibility.
Even in the rose tinted glasses area of tanking, you'd maybe press the enmity combo once, turn off defense stance and only be in dps stance the rest of the fight unless some job specific mechanic made you get out of it.

Hell I'm pretty sure it ended up being Ninja's job to handle enmity.

I feel like this is the issue though, It was never properly tried because DPS for some reason had a lot of aggro management systems in place (ninja) so it became less of a tanking jobs focus, Also the fact is tanky stances weren't really required as a main tank their became No reason to use your defensive stance.

I feel as if, You 1. Made tank stances more important, aka you could tie mitigation to it and the inbuilt defensive value is strong without it you're just a melee DPS defensive wise ect. 2. Add gameplay rotational differences based on what stances are active, In a DPS stance dark knight for example could have a haste buff, PLD could unlock stronger "sword oath" attacks that change up your combo paths ect ect. I feel as this is all actually fairly balanceable just the effort required would never be put in, because trying to make tanks and healers interesting and feel fun and unique isn't a priority.

Not to say omg tanks have to have aggro management but Surely they could at least make tanks more fun to play, but in reality tanks have been getting dummed down rotationally despite aggro management being took away, boss movement has become less Important the issue isn't that aggro management was removed, I'm fine with that but nothing was there to replace it... Which is the core of the issue Tank design is so boring, flat plain and so safe.

I feel like SE is too afraid to make support kits interesting because the idea of one job being left behind holds back interesting design to the point where having different and unique jobs makes no sense because everything plays the same. This hurts support jobs the most as at least DPS can have interesting rotational differences, while tanks and healers are designed to have the most uninspired boring rotations imaginable because of the trend of trying to make the jobs easy to play while also making their kits so similar.