Pictomancer is absurd

[Supersnow845]

I'm afraid we won't see eye to eye on this. To me, "Don't like it, Don't play it" also applies to job design. It could also be used on the graphic update too. Don't like your dead eyes? Pick a different race. That's aesthetics too. I don't understand how aesthetics is unacceptable as valid criticism.

Because there is no logical ending to an aesthetics criticism

If I said I wanted DRK’s 1-2-3 to look like sailor moon’s transformation would that be a valid aesthetic criticism of DRK that is worth considering changing DRK for

No of course not I’d just be told to play a different job

Aesthetic criticism just really isn’t a valid reason to change a job because it doesn’t affect gameplay. It’s the same reason why it’s pointless to argue against others taste in glamour, because you don’t have to wear what they are wearing

The only time I’d really argue aesthetic criticism is valid is a situation like modern healers where all 4 options are “UWU I'm h-h-hewe t-to make aww youw wounds nyice and bettew“. However casters are visually diverse so you have options

[nguyentri11]

I think it's unrealistic to "improve the experience for everyone". Whether it's a job rotation or aesthetic change, no matter how many people like it, there will still be a portion that don't like it.

[Bonoki]

You both present compelling arguments that I find difficult to refute, yet I can't shake the feeling that "Don't like it, don't play it" shouldn't be the default response. It's challenging for me to let go of that stance.

[Doozer]

I'm afraid we won't see eye to eye on this. To me, "Don't like it, Don't play it" also applies to job design. It could also be used on the graphic update too. Don't like your dead eyes? Pick a different race. That's aesthetics too. I don't understand how aesthetics is unacceptable as valid criticism.

Unfortunately applying one type of logic to everything doesn't really make sense. Some things can be true about one thing but not others.

[Unholychinchilla]

You both present compelling arguments that I find difficult to refute, yet I can't shake the feeling that "Don't like it, don't play it" shouldn't be the default response. It's challenging for me to let go of that stance.

It's not being used as a default response here, though, it genuinely applies. Aesthetics are subjective and plenty of people are excited for Pictomancer. People are simply recognising that. This isn't taking away what somebody already has (such as changes from the graphics update or an unsatisfactory job rework) or offering no other choice (like the MSQ or the massive boss hit boxes) so, as long as it does please a lot of other players, "don't like it, don't play it" is a reasonable response. But in the other examples given it'd be a terrible response.

The fact that an argument is bad in some situations, doesn't mean it's bad in all situations. I do understand your concern with it's use but I think it's fine here in discussion of the aesthetics of a new job.

[Turtledeluxe]

Job design is false equivalency because it's undefined. We are talking about altering trailers, the Scion being a wrong choice, the armor being bad, the animations being out of place. The magnitude of that seems massive when you think about a single instance of job Design i.e. "this ability is removed", "this ability is buffed". Don't like it don't play it isn't consistent across every single topic, but it can be applied to things that consume an unreasonable amount of resources and just aren't going to change.

The FFXIV community conflates dev openness to feedback with all feedback being valid and that just isn't true. Conversely, that kind of thinking is too broad and too extreme to apply to any given situation. It's important to be objective when it comes to recommending changes to the game. Complaining about Picto (aesthetically anyway, devs will willfully homogenize its gameplay for you) is both futile and self serving.

[Saraide]

I'm afraid we won't see eye to eye on this. To me, "Don't like it, Don't play it" also applies to job design. It could also be used on the graphic update too. Don't like your dead eyes? Pick a different race. That's aesthetics too. I don't understand how aesthetics is unacceptable as valid criticism.

Fine then, provide us an aesthetic that everyone likes.

[Boblawblah]

Bonoki: I'm not really a fan of the looks of the Pictomancer.

ITT: "omg, the data says..." "that's not a logical argument", "make one everyone likes then"

lol, since when does not liking something have to be logical and have data supporting it? She doesn't like it, she shared her opinion on it. (and yes, you're allowed to share your responses to her criticism too, as silly as I may find them)

[Sjol]

I'm sure PIC aesthetics were tested internally, at a minimum. So they have some indications that it'll so it's job in terms of selling units.

Honestly and personally, I find the modern clothes glams to be more immersion breaking. Sneakers, CK-style bands, hoodies are all modern, sometimes very. All this without the intervening fashion and technological evolutions that made them possible. For me, they're very out of place with no in universe explanation of why fashion suddenly shifted from medieval and Renaissance to 21st century street clothes

[Doozer]

Bonoki: I'm not really a fan of the looks of the Pictomancer.

ITT: "OMG, tHe dAta SaYS..." "THatS NOt A lOgICaL ArGUmENT", "MaKE oNE EVerYOnE LikES ThEN"

lol, since when does not liking something have to be logical and have data supporting it? She doesn't like it, she shared her opinion on it. (and yes, you're allowed to share your responses to her criticism too, as silly as I may find them)

No offence, but like. Grow up. Either peoples' opinions are valid or tHeY'rE sOmEtHiNg YoU mAkE fUn Of LiKe ThIs. Pick one.