Pictomancer is absurd

[Tint]

Maybe Green Mage but CBU3 has shown a dislike for DoTs. They've designed everything around a 2 minute burst window and a job built around DoTs doesn't fit within that paradigm.

It's not too difficult to come up with a solution to make it work. Just copy the Thundercloud mechanic from BLM and couple that with the Flourish skill from DNC.

Or fill up a gauge when the DoTs are running and then use hard hitting attacks which consume the gauge.

[Bonoki]

I'm not particularly keen on Pictomancer either. The whole painting and art theme in video games has never quite captured my interest. Even though it's somewhat original, I tend to find the concepts rather mundane. Moreover, the animations thus far don't strike me as particularly impressive. What concerns me, and perhaps others as well, is the potential for a cartoonish aesthetic to overshadow classes like Summoner and Red Mage, especially if Pictomancer leans more towards a combative role despite its whimsical appearance. Ultimately, like many in the community, I'll likely gravitate towards playing it regardless of personal preference if it proves to be optimal for content.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Do not see why using paint and creation magics (i.e. Pictomancer) is absurd but weaponizing singing, playing instruments, throwing a wrench (Dismantle, MCH), divining with tarot cards and dance steps resulting in the biggest damage explosions known to man is apparently A-okay.

There is another Pictomancer in Square Enix's games, Folie from Bravely Default II. If anyone played that game, she is an absolute menace, both lore-wise and in combat.

Don't take pictomancy lightly, it's not the tools of your trade that make the job a menace, it is how they use it.

[Bonoki]

Do not see why using paint and creation magics (i.e. Pictomancer) is absurd but weaponizing singing, playing instruments, throwing a wrench (Dismantle, MCH), divining with tarot cards and dance steps resulting in the biggest damage explosions known to man is apparently A-okay.

There is another Pictomancer in Square Enix's games, Folie from Bravely Default II. If anyone played that game, she is an absolute menace, both lore-wise and in combat.

Don't take pictomancy lightly, it's not the tools of your trade that make the job a menace, it is how they use it. Don't mess with Krile now.

That's because those elements have been ingrained in the game for years, and it's unlikely that anyone will suddenly start criticizing something that's been part of the game's fabric since the beginning. Many of these jobs are also staples in the Final Fantasy series, having had ample time to establish themselves as core components. Pictomancer, on the other hand, has only appeared in one mainline game and perhaps a few lesser-known spin-offs. The reason these established jobs aren't under as much scrutiny is simply because they're no longer the new kid on the block. It's Pictomancer that is right now.

Moreover, singing, card reading, and dancing are just one aspect of these jobs; they encompass a broader range of abilities. Bards, for instance, combine singing with archery skills, while Astrologians wield cards alongside their healing abilities, creating captivating stellar effects. Even Machinists, with a single odd skill, boast a range of impressive abilities that overshadow any perceived absurdity.

In contrast, Pictomancer's identity seems limited to painting, which, based on what little we've seen, doesn't immediately captivate. Until we see more of its repertoire, it's hard to gauge its potential beyond this singular focus. Another aspect that might have deterred some viewers was the exaggerated flamboyance showcased in the Pictomancer trailer. It possibly overshadowed the game's essence for some. While arguments about its silly nature may seem disingenuous at times, it's understandable why Pictomancer is receiving such scrutiny while the others aren't. Also, it's worth noting that Dancer initially faced scrutiny for its unconventional nature. There was a period on these forums where some found it challenging to reconcile the idea of dancing amid battle despite being a reoccurring job in the series.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

-snip-

Sorry I may have been a bit reductive to the other jobs in question, but if we see jobs from their full spectrum of how they utilize their abilities, then I see Pictomancer basically as "creative Arcanist". From my understanding, Arcanist and off-spring jobs utilize Arcanima, which is basically just using aetheric geometry and math to manipulate unaspected aether. We know aetherically conductive ink exists and are most often utilized in Grimoires and Codexes, so going from there aetherically conductive paint seems hardly like a stretch. The brush essentially is a type of wand/focus similar to what Black Mages and Thaumaturges wield, but specialized to shape their paint.

Long story short, manipulating aether using creativity as a focus, Arcanima for math nerds, both use paint/ink for their drawn/inscribed aetheric solutions. Both shape their magic through those solutions, with temporary or active presence in the battlefield. Hardly an alien concept if you think about it.

I just don't see why Pictomancer needs to prove itself as a concept so much other than not being excessively planted throughout the FF franchise. It just surprises me under how much scrutiny the concept actually is. Maybe I am just way more open to foreign concepts, who knows.

Good thing pointing out that about Dancer btw, I actually have forgotten that. 5.0 has been quite some time ago.

[Ancalagon_Blacktalon]

people were/are clamoring for a blitzball class and I find it hard to believe that it's less silly than pictomancer LMAO

stopping the end of the universe with the power of SPORTSBALL

[Gemina]

I don't know where you might've been but there were quite a few people in the forums asking for it at least and believing it was coming based on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shirt.

Show me the receipt(s). I've been around since 2016, and while I don't dedicate my every waking moment on these forums, the rise in Pictomancer discussions is very recent. It rarely, if ever came up in discussions when adding a new caster to the game was the topic. Those conversations always centered around Geomancer, Green Mage, Time Mage, Chemist, and Necromancer. I can recall more mentions of Puppet Master than I can Pictomancer in previous years. While I won't say it has never come up, I will stick by my previous comment of saying no one was asking for it. I would even wager many pro Pictos would still choose one of the other options over it if given the choice.

While I would've preferred just about anything else, it's coming and I'm going to accept it because the alternative would be letting it fester and becoming a miserable grouch.

Well, what other choice do we have? That doesn't mean we can't criticize the decision. Dev criticism and complaints happen all the time here. Is it only allowed when the critique/complaint is the consensus?

But while the developers obviously aim to please, game development isn't a democracy. This was already shown to us when Viera was by far the most desired race when they ran that poll like a decade ago but we got scaley people, which was the least desired just because that's the one they felt like they wanted and could be more creative with. Pictomancer was selected because they wanted it.

This argument only works if Viera were never made a playable race. They even reversed their decision when they stated that it would be female only along with male Hrothgar. FFXIV isn't a democracy in the sense that the subscribers decide who gets to develop the game based on what those team members promise to bring, but their feedback can and does influence their decisions. They can't make everyone happy, but it's not a bad thing to try anyway.

If we're going to only allow jobs in FF games that show up multiple times, then it'll just be the same jobs over and over. At least Pictomancer is a bit more creative and allows the devs to do more interesting battle effects. I've been a fan of the "cel-shaded" look in video games since Wind Waker and Cel Damage.

This is one of the better arguments I have seen that is pro pictomancer...

While that may be true in a vacuum, the reality is that you can currently dress up as a reindeer (or any one of the dozen mascot outfits we have), pull a gigantic champagne bottle out of nowhere, and spray people down with it. I'm not really worried about the aesthetics anymore. If it's specifically jobs and/or seeing silly things in an actual dungeon you're worried about, then we've already crossed that bridge with Ninjas producing cartoon bunnies on their heads and bosses turning people into "water imps". Carbuncle itself in my opinion swings closer to the Pictomancer aesthetic side of things than the grittier medieval fantasy of everything else.

... This is not. Your argument is much, much stronger if you leave this out. This is parroting, and is indicative of an NPC mindset. Your previous statements show that you can think for yourself, and come up with your own viewpoints to express your opinion on why Pictomancer as a viable design choice to bring into the game.

The thing is, when it comes to glamour and battle effects, I cannot control, nor do I care how a player chooses to dress their character. I also can turn the battle effects off for other players so I won't even see them. My argument here comes into play about my own personal decision to play this job. The glamour options, the job's skillset, and its effects heavily influence this decision. I would love to want to play Pictomancer. None of the other casters with the exception of BLM has appealed to me, so when it was announced that the game would be adding another caster, I was excited to see what it was and what they would do. What they came up with fell short of my expectations. I know and understand that this does not mean everyone else should dislike the choice. Of course not. However, it does place me in the camp of other players who were also disappointed, and this should be ok too.

[Khryseis_Astra]

Long story short, manipulating aether using creativity as a focus, Arcanima for math nerds, both use paint/ink for their drawn/inscribed aetheric solutions. Both shape their magic through those solutions, with temporary or active presence in the battlefield. Hardly an alien concept if you think about it.

Yeah as a SMN using magic ink, magic paint doesn’t seem too much of a stretch! lol

Personally I’m excited to see how it plays. I get that people maybe wanted something else, or that they’re not liking the job aesthetic (what little they’ve been shown so far!), but to say it’s absurd to be put in the game is just, well, absurd. Just because it only showed up in one of the main games? People were hoping for Green Mage (and granted they threw people for a loop with that clover earring!), but that didn’t even have a “main game” presence at all iirc, just the mobile games.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Yeah as a SMN using magic ink, magic paint doesn’t seem too much of a stretch! lol

Personally I’m excited to see how it plays. I get that people maybe wanted something else, or that they’re not liking the job aesthetic (what little they’ve been shown so far!), but to say it’s absurd to be put in the game is just, well, absurd. Just because it only showed up in one of the main games? People were hoping for Green Mage (and granted they threw people for a loop with that clover earring!), but that didn’t even have a “main game” presence at all iirc, just the mobile games.

Mobile and Ivalice based games, aka Tactics and XII. Just wanted to add that. The actual spell arsenal also depended on the individual game.

[MikkoAkure]

Show me the receipt(s). I've been around since 2016, and while I don't dedicate my every waking moment on these forums, the rise in Pictomancer discussions is very recent. It rarely, if ever came up in discussions when adding a new caster to the game was the topic. Those conversations always centered around Geomancer, Green Mage, Time Mage, Chemist, and Necromancer. I can recall more mentions of Puppet Master than I can Pictomancer in previous years. While I won't say it has never come up, I will stick by my previous comment of saying no one was asking for it. I would even wager many pro Pictos would still choose one of the other options over it if given the choice.

After the shirt reveal at fan fest there were several threads about speculating on the job and people were talking about green mage, geomancer, and pictomancer.

YoshiP said on stage that there would be no blitzball, can't get any higher cope than that.

Corsairs probably the JP reveal, The turtles t-shirt seems far more indicative of pictomancer imo

I saw someone make the guess of Pictomancer based off the concept of the Ninja Turtles being named after famous artists. Pretty solid guess I thought.

Yeah this makes the most sense to me too. Painter or Pictomancer, use a brush, cause magic effects.

We already even kinda have something like that with Demon Chadarnook back in Stormblood, so they could even pull a "Oh you fought a demon painting? Yeah the ancient tales of paintings murdering people comes from our art, no pun intended, but the paintings aren't actually alive... usually."

And a whole thread from 6 years ago:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...30149&langid=7

Your argument is much, much stronger if you leave this out. This is parroting, and is indicative of an NPC mindset. Your previous statements show that you can think for yourself, and come up with your own viewpoints to express your opinion on why Pictomancer as a viable design choice to bring into the game.

I don't even know where to start with this or what "NPC mindset" is supposed to mean.

I don't know what else to tell you other that "cartoony" stuff has already entered the game. You can get turned into water imps, frogs, green chicken, or even paint the floor in a raid like was brought up above. You can go to a casino that is in the shape of a giant cactuar covered in domes, filled with bunny girls, and hop in a tiny plane to shoot cartoony balloons. You can summon a cartoony rabbit on your head if you mess up mudras or summon a bright neon glowing cat-rabbit thing that does gem magic. While none of them had cartoony effects as core to their content and this is certainly an escalation, it's at least not alone.