A New Treasure Map Dungeon Experiment

[ShadowNyx3]

As we will soon be upon our 5th iteration of Treasure Maps that are likely to remain largely unchanged, I would like to suggest a shift in how RNG is handled in maps that I believe would make them a lot more appealing for all players and offer a breath of fresh air for this content.

As it stands now, the conceit of gaining access to a treasure map dungeon is that fate can kick you out of the content whenever it decides you don't get to play anymore. Obviously nobody likes getting kicked out cause then you aren't getting your loot, but it also just turns a majority of the map experience into 1) traveling to a new location 2) retainer/mogmail juggling for new maps 3) killing the same two sets of mobs just to get a chance at getting back inside.

I would like to propose removing the ability to be kicked out of a dungeon once you are inside to maximize the amount of time spent on the thing that's fun: killing mobs, killing a boss, and getting a loot drop.

To use the current format as an example, instead of RNG deciding you picked the wrong door or landed on an Atomos and kicking you out, I suggest these failure states instead buff the enemies in the dungeon. Conversely, picking the right door or perhaps landing on a favorable space of the wheel grants your party buffs. This creates an environment where your only failure state for the dungeon is whether you can survive each wave, and good or bad luck make it easier or harder to reach the end. The idea is not to change the difficulty, but to give the player the agency to control how long they stay in the dungeon.

At the same time, the RNG must remain in some capacity to ensure that the whole concept of maps isn't changing. So, instead of balancing the rate of getting something cool on whether the game lets you keep playing, we move all the luck into the reward at the end. To compensate for a much higher clear rate, the dungeon should only contain 1 loot coffer at the end which rewards a random amount of standard rewards: crafting mats, materia, gil, tomes, etc.; and possibly a rare unique item or two.

There are some other tweaks that would be needed, but I am curious what people think of this concept.


tldr; Remove RNG removal from Treasure Map Dungeons and replace with random buffs/debuffs. Loot upon completion is balanced accordingly.

[Valence]

B-but that would make it based on skill and not for a casual audience!

( I'm only half joking tbh, I do think it would shift the target audience significantly )

[Asari5]

that would take a lot of fun away though. sure getting kicked out can be frustrsting if youre on an unlucky streak, but that makes the times you stay in much more fun.

[StouterTaru]

The biggest issue is the variety of enemies. Ophios are the worst of the increasing blandness of maps

60 maps
8 possible fights, with different spawn patterns, for each of the first 6 chambers
4 different bosses

70 maps
each chamber got its own spawn pattern, with only 4 possible enemy patterns per chamber instead of 8
4 different bosses in the dungeon were almost exactly the same
portals could go to dungeon or roulette

80 maps
dungeons went from 7 rooms to 5, only 2 different bosses for final room
roulette was a reskin of 70 roulette

90 maps
split dungeon and roulette into different maps, and reskinned both from 80 maps

[ShadowNyx3]

B-but that would make it based on skill and not for a casual audience!

( I'm only half joking tbh, I do think it would shift the target audience significantly )

The idea isn't to change the difficulty inherently. Even without any buffs/debuffs you're getting the exact same scaling as they are, and now if you're lucky you get to kill things even faster. The idea is just giving you a choice when you're unlucky instead of getting kicked out, you could now choose to deal with harder enemies or just leave and try again in another instance.

that would take a lot of fun away though. sure getting kicked out can be frustrsting if youre on an unlucky streak, but that makes the times you stay in much more fun.

That being said, a response like shows me a portion of the people who do maps actually enjoy having no choice in the matter; which I don't agree with but I can recognize that something that is more gambling than skill is something that appeals to people.


Ultimately I think experimenting with a new format for 1 type of map would be pretty harmless and might even open some people up to new ideas for their content.

[Duskane]

make the next one a board game like snakes n ladders roll a dice and land on squares with various different effects and trials

[Vallerie]

While I'm not dissatisfied with the current map dungeon format, I wouldn't mind a new experiment with it!

I would propose something like - you get two or three doors, each with their own assigned curse. You can see what the curse is, it could be something like drastically increased damage taken and/or reduced healing, enemies explode on death, constant raidwide damage pulses, rapid AoEs dropping, that sort of thing. Sometimes you get rooms with double curse but increased rewards (guaranteed multiple mats perhaps? minions? idk), rarely you get a boon room with no enemies, reward, and a buff until the end of the dungeon. Could even have an option for the final boss between Ex level fight and current final boss difficulty.

Means you can still get screwed over, but in a way that can make the fight more engaging, it's more deterministic, and you still get those exciting silver roulette roll moments.
It could be a separate map too like Ophio maps are now, or maybe special map from like wondrous tails or something.

[ty_taurus]

So basically the original FF7 battle arena in the gold saucer, but instead of random penalties, it’s random enemy enhancements.

[DemiBajamut]

I love this idea, it's so frustrating getting rotten luck. There are days I do treasure maps with friends and a portal never spawns out of 10 maps, and when we finally get portals we get booted out on the 2nd door or 2nd boss. I'd be fine if the difficulty is raised in general (ignoring buffs/debuffs for winning the RNG roll) to account for not being able to get kicked out of dungeons anymore.

[ShadowNyx3]

I love this idea, it's so frustrating getting rotten luck. There are days I do treasure maps with friends and a portal never spawns out of 10 maps, and when we finally get portals we get booted out on the 2nd door or 2nd boss. I'd be fine if the difficulty is raised in general (ignoring buffs/debuffs for winning the RNG roll) to account for not being able to get kicked out of dungeons anymore.

I feel that, which is a big reason why I'd prefer a format where you get to stay inside once you get a portal. It may still take a few maps to get a portal but at least once we get inside we are going to experience the full amount of content unless we die due to our own mistakes.